Should Scotland be an independent country?

Really? Are we preoccupied as a nation with fucking up our neighbouring states and close trading partners at the moment?

We do compete with them, at the end of the day that can lead to more or less successful nations. Government policy might dictate more or less success for the nation but it needs to raise revenue from trade, trade is competitive.

In the past it made little difference if manufacturing work went to Scotland or rUK as the receipts ended up in one big pot, that would not be true with an independent Scotland. I'm not talking about sabotage, just less willing to facilitate Scottish success.

I can't wait until we can compete over slashing corporation tax rates. We can have a race to the bottom and the multinationals will be delighted!

Yes, but it DID matter. Where large defence contracts and the like have gone has always been intensely political and calculated to avoid pissing off marginal constituencies.

^ act of union 1707

oh FFS pages refreshing and I'm still on the other page

Yes, it mattered to the competing marginal groups. I tried to stay away from defence contracts as an example because that's government spending and has to come from tax revenue, it will continue to be important where in England and Wales defence contracts land because the local population can live on that.

I'm more interested in open/worldwide competition for trade or business which generates tax income, i.e. the production of goods for export through manufacturing. Surely competition between an iScotland and rUK would increase vs the current situation.

Hopefully the Scottish will have the power to elect a government less short-sighted.

Ed Milliband's walkabout cancelled early due to media crush and yes campaigners shouting him down.

Good.

You might be disappointed; it is the expressed policy of the SNP:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-24990385

Or, if you want detail, see page 99 of this SNP Economic policy document:

http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Resource/0043/00438277.pdf

yes campaigners shouting him down.

I thought they didn't do that?

So, Shimano or Campag?

Sram

yes campaigners shouting him down.

Yeah because that is a great way to deal with things. Milliband is a prize twat but depriving him of a voice is stupid, especially when what comes out of his mouth would probably do more for the Yes campaign anyway...

Quite...

Sram

You can't pick Wales. :)

Just because Wales shares a freehub system with Shimano, doesn't mean it doesn't have a rich cultural heritage. Or something.

Inigo Mendez de Vigo, the Spanish European Affairs Minister, has poured cold water all over Alex Salmond's assumptions on EU membership.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11099167/Spanish-warn-independent-Scotland-would-get-euro-not-pound.html

I guess he must be another patriarchal, patronizing No campaigner distorting the facts.

This EU membership thing is a blind, Scotland would have to apply but they would be admitted, the Spanish will be bought off.

He said there were “more ifs than a poem by Kipling”

Irrespective of content this is a highlight from the article for me

The Spaniard is worried about the what his government have deemed an illegal independence referendum in Catalunya.

What's the leverage to get the Spanish to agree. They are trying to protect themselves from Catalonian independence, if they concede to the Scots it opens the door for the Catalans.

I guess he must be another patriarchal, patronizing No campaigner distorting the facts.

come on now, you were doing so well...

He's probably been on the ringer with Cameron pursing his lips at him and promising Gibraltar's return of only he'll save both his and Spain's blushes.

Surely the historian in you can look at the context. Post-yes he'll have to STFU and suck on it lest he make the EU look undemocratic, god forbid, or even lose the potential lifeblood of a wealthy, left leaning country that shares a border with England being in the fold. No?

no country that has gained independence has ever asked to reunify

Depends on your definitions of 'gained' and 'independence', but I seem to remember DDR asking to re-unify with [BRD](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRD_(Germany)), and being allowed to do so.

What's the leverage to get the Spanish to agree.

In general because it would be in the interests of the EU to have Scotland as member once the Scots have started to pick up the pieces of what they have broken, and what is in the interests of the EU tends to get agreed. And in particular because Spain is very dependent the goodwill of its EU partners, think of the continuing bailout from the European Central Bank which for example is about to start buying Spanish bank bad debts, mostly securitized mortgages in a property market that has suffered the biggest price collapse of any in Europe. Maybe there would also be a promise not to treat Catalonia in the same way - it's clearly different in that Catalonian independence would not be recognised by Spain.

It may be that the rump UK would also be in favour of Scotland in the EU perhaps on condition that it joins the eurozone, would rather have the Germans on the line to bail out the Scots when it comes to it. But anything that brings more stability to what would otherwise be an unstable entity would be good for the rUK.

My point is that the EU argument is not what this is about, it is about largeness of vision versus reductive nationalism.

Depends on your definitions of 'gained' and 'independence'

Ahaha. Well, not the split and reunification of Germany, for a start.