Allocation of EHBPC Spots

This thread intends to determine how many EHBPC spots will be allocated to teams through the UK Championships.
All remaining spots will be given to the second qualifier.

Please propose here the number of spots you think should be given to the UKC.

As of 12 noon tomorrow, all of the proposals made here will be collated into a poll which people can vote on until 9pm of this coming Friday (4th of April).

Please only partake in the discussion and poll if you intend to try and compete in the EHBPC 2014 and please bring this to the awareness of anyone in your club whom it concerns.

This is especially important, as this is not intended as a straw poll, but will be the final say* on EHBPC spots from the UKC.

*Barring extenuating circumstances in which the voted proposal may conflict with the total number of UK spots / ability to hold a second qualifier.

As a note, if anyone objects to this idea, (e.g. thinks that we should wait until after the UKC to allocate spots) then propose it here and it can also be voted on.

Also could a mod please make this thread a sticky, please.

Proposal of 4 spots to be given through the UKC.

• Ensures a competitive representation of UK bike polo at the Euros
  
• Allows for a competitive amount of spots for second qualifier (on the assumption that UK will be given at least 5 and more likely 6/7 main tournament spots for the euros)
  
• Means 4 less teams have to travel to a second qualifier, can start planning for euros.
  
• Slightly smaller second qualifier, easier to organise for host city.
  
• Does not require any additional scheduling from the UKC organisers.
  

I would say wait and see. Everyone should play as hard as they can at the UK Champs anyway and should be aware that its a potential qualification if they win. Ideally it would be 50:50 but if we only have 5 spots for example, then i would prefer the top 3 in the uk champs and then the 2 finalists for the qualification tourney.

Therefore it makes more sense to wait until we know what the allocation is imo

If it is 7 spots as rumoured (though not confirmed) then i back emmet's idea of 4 spots for the ukc for his reasons but i still think its worth knowing first

also well done emmet for getting on with this

If we don't have it set prior to this tourney then there will inevitably be a team who feel really hard done by.

How many clearly defined places are there at a tourney. 1st and 2nd are obvious and 3rd is also quite defined, but does it come down to GD from there?

Top 4 are defined. I think a vote between 3,4,5 spots should be enough.

If we don't have it set prior to this tourney then there will inevitably be a team who feel really hard done by.

Preach. it'll be deciding that an actual team can't go, rather than just picking a number and will be nigh on impossible. It should be defined before the weekend - nice work Emmet.

The rumour of 7 places is that including wild card spots? Or are we not including those at the moment.

I think UKC 4 spots 2nd Qualifier 3 in this instance is fine.
For reference though would this mean that one spot either way (6 or 8) would become a 50/50 split? Or would UKC still hold a majority? 5:3 (if 8) or 4:2 (if 6).

I'd go for 4 so won't be putting in a second proposal.

Top 4 are defined. I think a vote between 3,4,5 spots should be enough.

For 5 you need a playoff, or another way to split them. Double Elim defines 1,2,3 & 4, then J5th, J7th, J9th, J13th

Maybe a 60:40 split to the UK Champs for whatever number of spots are given? Therefore no team feels hard done by as it is already decided...

If we don't have it set prior to this tourney then there will inevitably be a team who feel really hard done by.

This.

I think a vote between 3,4,5 spots should be enough.

Fin, I wanted to vote on proposals, because the UK does not have an official body. As there is no authority I wanted the proposals to be open to anyone that has an expressed interest in going to the euros.

But by all means suggest 3 and 5 spots yourself.

Maybe a 60:40 split to the UK Champs for whatever number of spots are given

This is an interesting idea, and I think that we should include it as a proposal in the vote.
The downside of this though is that it may be a while for Vicenza to confirm still, which makes it harder for teams to confirm travel / time off for the second qualifier and EHBPC.

The rumour of 7 places is that including wild card spots? Or are we not including those at the moment.

7 main spots for the UK.

There has been no discussion of whether a wild card will be open or also be distributed by country. If distributed then the wild card spots will be added to the second qualifier.

But again, the idea of there being 7 is firmly just a rumour at the moment.

I think UKC 4 spots 2nd Qualifier 3 in this instance is fine.
For reference though would this mean that one spot either way (6 or 8) would become a 50/50 split? Or would UKC still hold a majority? 5:3 (if 8) or 4:2 (if 6).

The proposal of 4 spots from UKC is independent of what is announced overall, ie. it is not suggested as a ratio.
So if the proposal is passed and the UK is given 8 spots then the second qualifier will also get 4 spots. Conversely, if the UK gets a total of 6 spots then the second qualifier will have 2 spots.

4 spots from UK champs. All the other spots to the qualifiers, regardless of how many are given.

#IMO etc

But by all means suggest 3 and 5 spots yourself.

I personally think 4 is the best bet. If there are no proposals for 3 or 5 etc, will 4 become the de facto allocation? (It should imo).

No, as there are currently two other proposals from Ben.

• Wait until Vicenza announce spots.
  
• Make a 60 - 40 split in favour of UKC once spots are announced.
  

I propose 50/50, if odd numbers extra place goes to champs (this could end up being the same as 4 spots for the champs, but covers alternate eventualities better, in my opinion.)

What if the uk gets four spots, will this just be an alternate way to nix a second qualifier?

Your proposal will be added to the list Louis.

What if the uk gets four spots, will this just be an alternate way to nix a second qualifier?

If the UK only gets 4 spots then the second qualifier will be a competition for the wild card sports.

If the UK only gets 4 spots and 0 wildcard spots, then we will have to have another discussion at that time.

However, it currently seems that the UK getting as few as 4 spots is extremely unlikely.
This is considering the proposed method of allocation ( https://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/tournaments/2013/11/05/ehbpc-2014 post #95) and the fact that the organisers have expressed a particular interest in hosting a large, 64 team tournament, like last year.

Understanding the high probability that the UK will be allocated more than 4 spots, I personally think that the benefits of giving 4 spots to the UKC out weigh the 'safety' of other proposals.

And when it has been decided on allocating these 4/5 spots over the coming weekend are you then setting a date prior to the qualifier (for the remaining spots), by which the top four/five have to confirm they are actually going/able to go? Hypothetically, if the fourth slot after this weekend cannot/does not go then the fifth place team should not be at the qualifiers etc etc.

Teams and players should register nationally at the start of each polo year to declare their intent/availability for annual EHBPC/WHBPC qualification IMHO. That way tournament organisers have the opportunity to try and avoid matches that at best have no bearing on qualification and at worst slew results. Similarly this voluntary register would give a UK organising body the opportunity to genuinely manage a wildcard allocation in a measured way - eg. when a highly ranked/credible team cannot make qualifiers/injuries etc.

If we get seven slots (ignoring wildcard for a sec), then all three proposals are the same. All will end up with 4 for uk champs and 3 alt. so the only reason to choose one over the others is what happens if there are a different number of slots awarded.

In fact depending on rounding, puncture and my proposals are the same, so I withdraw mine (unless he withdraws his!)

^^ Good points Neil, I am developing points outlining confirmation of spots which will be presented in my proposal first thing tomorrow.

^ The difference with a fixed number of spots proposal is that teams do not have to wait for confirmation from Italy to make confirmations themselves. Italy might not quite be on the ball, but that doesn't mean we can't be.
Also I basically just think that we should send the top 4 from the UKC. That wouldn't happen in a 50:50 proposal if we were given less than 7 spots.

persuasive emmet, i think i agree with you but might as well leave it to the vote...?

Just for the vote, as it is better to at least have one instead of a fait accompli (emmet agrees on this), here are my proposals:

1. Wait and see what Vicenza offer as an allocation and then decide.

• Everyone will play as hard as they can at the UK Champs anyway and should be aware that its a potential qualification if they win.

• Ideally it would be 50:50 but if we only have 5 spots for example, then i would prefer the top 3 in the uk champs and then the 2 finalists for the qualification tourney.

• Therefore it makes more sense to wait until we know what the allocation is imo

2. A 60:40 split to the UK Champs for whatever number of spots are given

• Therefore no team feels hard done by as it is already decided

• Weights the UK Champs over the qualifier but still gives plenty of respect to the qualifier

• Avoids the potential problem of having 4 spots already allocated and then only 1 or 2 extra allocated to the qualifier, making it less worth peoples time to travel to Bristol again to qualify

So do we vote now on this thread? Would be good to see how people are voting, rather than a blind poll

^^Thanks Ben.

^Going to open a new thread at 12 with a transparent poll.