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This as a 40 or 38 and you would have sold it already!

GLWS

All the replies are accurate. Unfortunately you have to have a german racing licence and have to be a member of a Berlin cycling club. It's pretty unfortunate.
the reason is that the velodrome nowadays is owned privately and frequently used for events like concerts. The city of Berlin has to rent the place and pay for every day of use there.

It's a shame, really, because its a super fast track.

Thinking of the DF4 as a track specific build, I want two bikes build up for track and street. Right now one bike seves it all.

Optically I find the Seta more intriguing, it looks sleeker. But it also looks flexier, due to the overall thinner tubes&stuff. Hence the question if the Seta is track worthy.

Anybody able to compare it to a DF4? Does the seta flex notably more?

Yeah, it's probably all about the edges and angles of which the wind comes on the surface. These round surfaces sound more aero to me as an aero-layman.

Standing starts are a thing. I tend to span my bike into the turbo trainer occasionally, and I am always surprised to see how much flex is in my (rather cheap) alu frame. Not sure whether I would notice it in the cranks, due to a lack of experience. But I will try it asap.

Chainrings are another story. I always have been fond of the Gebhardt one as a cheap replacement for Zen's. They are thick, rather heavy and pretty solid.

Oh, and I wonder how they hold up against Rotor 3D24 track cranks. They would've been my first choice for aero. The price tag diff is significant, tho.

For a square taper crank I always found my S75's to be pretty stiff and solid. But I'm no 80Kg sprinter type, maybe that makes a difference. Given how hard it is for square taper crnaksets to compete against (most of the) modern thru-axle designs they do quite nice.

But it's true that the the 75DD's are not so tempting. They always looked like an unwanted child, born just because the marked demanded something with outboard bb.

btw @umop3pisdn what do you mean by "agricultural"? :D

The cheapest approach will probably be buying used stuff from here or ebay. I once got a full Tiagra Set for 45. Probably search for some Tiagra stuff like deraileurs, brakes and Crankset here, and get the thumb shifters for it.

So you both went for the Pistard Air? Looks quite nice with these flashy chainringbolts... A serious track crank set from Miche after all?

(Almost) New stuff from Miche released this year. Anybody has some Info on it? Any opinions so far?

http://www.ridewill.it/en/news-and-promotions/new-miche-pistard-air-and-20-cranksets/284/

They certainly look good!

Half-OT: There is non-njs Sugino 75 stuff? I thought all of the S75 track stuff is automatically njs.

Is this Tacx Vortex any good? Because there is a huuuge price difference to other smart trainers. Is it just because it has no direct drive?

So, I am considering an update on my track frame to a more mid-range model. I don't really want to go with Dolans: The DF4 is a bit too much atm and the Pre Cursa would be a downgrade. The Mekk Pista T1 seems to have some Geo problems. The Condor Lavoro is quite nice but what really hit me were the Moda bikes.

I saw a Moda Forte in the flesh once and found it quite convincing. Nice geo, light, a little aero, a proper track bike. But I read about the recent Arco recently, made from aluminium and also quite aero. However, geometry data by moda delivers only selected info and it seems that this bike is quite rare in the wild. Hardly seen or reported upon.

So I wonder how these two compare. Any experience on the Arco? I would use all my finishing kit, so it's basically about the frames only.

The new batch of seta shoulf have arrived by their new owners by now. Any feedback concerning the frames? Complaints? Problems? Nive things?

Why not?

You're right, thats fine. Not too twitchy but still agressive.

Is the seta generally a worthy track frame or is it rather overpriced ?

38mm rake isn'z too attractive, IMO. It should be more agressive like 30mm or something.
But: Didn't look into the seta geo until now, so maybe it works out well.

Just to answer this: Its 31.6mm

How much for frame+fork only?

Yes, cheers. Switched cranks to 144 BCD anyway.

Oh my gosh, I want this frame so badly, I can only pray that you don't sell it until mid july. In that case I will get it.. :O

Are you coming to London anytime soon? Interested in the R540 pedals..

parcel2go is brilliant. I found some really cheap quotes. I'll let you know how much it was when its done..

So, I want to take my bike to Berlin later this month. But ryanair charges me 60 Euros /50 pounds per trip. Now I kinda wonder whether there is a way to get it there cheaper than that. Time and packaging are not really an issue, I can post it a couple of days in advance. Anybody has a hint?

I know there is a thread for that already but judging from the answers there its kinda dead.

cheers