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"There should be NO cycle lanes at all on bus routes.
Cyclists should largely ensure their own safety by NOT cycling on busy roads, especially those used often by trucks etc. Basic common sense. Of course, if they want to have their freedom to cycle wherever they like, then they must accept the consequential dangers."

I was angry, now I'm just hugely depressed that there are people who hold these views. What about the driver who repeatedly tried to ram me off the road because I wasn't cycling in the cycle lane, is that a 'consequential danger' I must accept as a cyclist, someone trying to kill me because got in his way.

The issue with people crossing when the man is red is annoying but so is everything. I wonder if in the uk we have a longer red man lag between no traffic going and no pedestrians walking. It seems that some countries have a lot quicker swap over so people know red man means no because the traffic is about to go. This may however be me looking at crossings and traffic systems I am not familiar with and thinking the traffic lights change quicker abroad

In Copenhagen the ped signals have a digital readout that counts down the green man so you know exactly when the cars are going to pull away. They also count down the time to the next green man so you know how long you have to wait.

Lol@the girl in the blue jacket towards the bottom (42secs in). Doesn't know where the hell to look!

Some people are mental.. I can't understand that kind of extreme impatience some people have. If I was in charge I would shoot on sight anyone who: ran a crossing on a red man; repeatedly bashes the door open button on the tube (it doesn't do anything you tw*ts!); tuts when the lift at work stops on any other floor but their own.

I saw a couple of girly girls earlier sprinting across oxford street and nearly getting squished, their reaction... to laugh "haha, like oh my god did you see how close that bus was hahaha!".

On sat a police car on an emergency call flew into oxford circus junction during ped crossing; peds started running everywhere (away from and into the path of the police car), the police started trying to weave through streams of people at speed, had to slam on the anchors, tried to accelerate again before screeching to a halt as another few peds ran into it's path.It all struck me as amazingly dangerous. I wonder if this scenarios was thought about when the ped crossings were redesigned.

Ah. Well, that is what a lot of us have been saying for a while.

Yep, it's always good to have some stats to back it up.

More on stats. I am not convinced that analysing killed is the way forward. The numbers are so low as to be statistically insignificant, plus the key witness is not able to give their own account.

I think a more fruitful approach would be to look at KSI. Much bigger numbers.

Interestingly, stats from the MET Motorcycle Tasking Team show that around half of all KSI for P2W (powered 2 wheel) in London involve a vehicle turning right across the path of the rider.

This suggests that even changing cyclist behaviour, in terms of which side to pass LGVs and other vehicles, may not solve the problem entirely without changing driver behaviour as well.

I'm trying to pull together lots of information that I hope to post up on the seemesaveme wiki shortly.

Drunk cycling... wise man say: 'it's all fun and games until someone loses a bollock'.

Although I've managed to avoid this particular injury, my ankle is still hurting 2 months after falling into road works riding home drunk.

mopeds up the inside of cycle lanes is getting a little irksome, and the cycle lanes! i get the bus lanes but when they are mixing it up in the cycle box it slows everything down!

I caught grief yesterday off a guy riding pillion on the back of his girlfriend's/wife's/sister's scooter. I was slowly filtering to the front of the lights in the green 'cycle' lane.... But apparently this lane is not for bikes at all, but actually reserved for Kensingtonites on lambrettas and cyclists should 'get the f*ck out of the way!'.

Of course I appologised sincerely and explained I was unaware that mopeds were entitled to requisition my road space without let or hindrance...

The first time I rode down there after the bumps were put in I honestly couldn't believe what I was seeing. There must be about 20 sets of bumps, some no more than 6ft apart. It is the most bizarre waste of rate payers money I have ever seen. And so petty on behalf of the council, it's the road management equivalent of taking their ball home.

even though he didn't apologized there and then I'm sure you put some big questions in his head so hopefully not a wasted conversation

In the end of the day, lorry drivers are human too, even though it's hard to believe some times

+1, some people will never admit they are wrong to your face but hopefully your discussion will have planted a seed and when he has time to reflect he will decide to modify his behaviour.

On a similar Policing theme; I don't know how much involvement LCC and others have with the police in terms of accident prevention but I sure the Roads Policing departments of the London forces may be interested in having an input.

The City of London Police, at least, are clearly aware of the problem of HGVs. It may be useful trying to contact Inspector Mountford and his Met counterpart.

Just a thought...

Treadders - so good to hear from you! I have LOADS of issues re the investigation, and ask any other family of a dead cyclist and Im sure they will too. I wrote a 7 page doc challenging their conclusions.
A draft guide for familiies has been drawn up but apparently it encourages families to ask "too many" questions of the police they dont like it and want it changed, as they think it implies they dont do a good job. Dont get me started on this one....
The first thing you could do is make the Road Death Investigation Manual - a good document I have read very well - compulsory instead of advisory. I dont think many Senior Investigation Officers will have read it as well as I have. Becuase it is not mandatory, so it is nearly worthless if they dont wnat to do what it suggests. Im sure they have enough compulsory stuff to read.
Working Group - Investigation

Ktee,

I am but a simple office monkey but I can ask around with some of my colleagues about how this kind of policy document gets disseminated to police forces and what is done to encourage it's adoption.

I would suggest a possible approach in this area would be to lobby the Met Police Service to adopt the Road Deaths Investigation Manual, if they haven't already (I may be able to find out if they have or not). However, I do think there is a big difference between adoption at the corporate level and actually putting policy into practice at operational level.

A good route to putting pressure on the Met Police Service would be to approach the Met Police Authority, the chair of which is that well known cyclist, Boris Johnson. The MPA and Boris in particular have a lot of power over the MPS and I'm sure he would be interested if officers were ignoring published ACPO policy.

It is a crazy situation when victims families have to chase up the police to ensure a proper investigation is carried out, I really feel for you. I'll try to find out as much as I can.

While I don't think I could bring much to the table for this particular meeting I do work for the National Policing Improvement Agency.

Amongst other things we produce policing manuals, for example our Specialist Operational Centre produced (together with ACPO) the current Road Deaths Investigation Manual. If any systemic issues were identified with regard to police investigation of fatal collisions involving cyclists then I could at the very least put you in touch with the policy makers.

I always go for option a.

Although my confidence was dented last night: After a perfect trackstand the lights changed, I lent forward and put all my might into the pedals, but my front wheel got stuck sideways in a grove into the road and I went crashing to the ground over the bars. I got to my feet quick smart and glanced back just to double check the car behind wasn't coming to run me over... alas the couple inside were pissing themselves laughing at my complete fail... DOH!

Just wear one of these at all times:

www.morphsuits.com

^^ ok, yeah that wouldn't work.

But surely there could be other leasons to be learned from other cities.

Thinking about this further, this is my suggestion for what should be included in such as campaign, or letter to Boris and other MPs.

1)A full unbiased and independant K&SI enquiry on reported cycle incidents in London similar to the 2001 Toronto Coroners Enquiry of the same nature to provide a clear and accurate assessment on the causes of accidents, the handling and investigation by police and reccomendations on prevantative measures.
2) A full overhaul of road design policy to clearly and reasonably favour cycling as a mode of transport. This overhaul should include open consultation with cycling communities and be implemented. as mandatory in all London boroughs for all new developments and redevelopments.
3) A programme of subsidised, low cost driver training in cycle awareness for all HGV drivers with an associated incentive.
4) A programme of subsidised, low cost road cycling training for all London residents.
5) A restriction on HGV traffic in London at rush hour times (0700 - 0930 & 1530 - 1900).
6) Immediate implementation of increased safety standard on all HGVs allowed into London.
7) A permanent and updateable memorial to cyclists killed in London traffic regardless of circumstances.

Maybe this is something we could lobby Boris about; an independent, expert led enquiry or investigation, funded by the Major's office, into how to improve the safety of cyclists on London streets (junction design, traffic flow control, traffic rules etc etc).

Surely there could be lessons from other cities; didn't the BBC suggest London should be more like Bogatoa or something the other day?

I have a question. What, exactly, do we want to be done? I realise we would like to reduce traffic fatalities, but what steps can the government take to help with this.

But as it stands, I'm not so sure I understand what we're after.

This part of the reason I started this thread. I wanted to write a letter to Boris about all these deaths but like you didn't quite know what to say..

And a big hard-hitting ad campaign, aimed fairly and squarely at female cyclists, in all the women's magazines (the ones that do the "hey, buy a bike and some pretty summer dresses" features), on TV during all the shows and channels (e.g. Living TV) women like watching saying "stay the fuck away from the inside of trucks"

And another aimed at london truck drivers - saying watch out for cyclists when turning left. Fit more mirrors, open your nearside window and go slowly.

Is it just cyclists? I wonder how many pedestrians and motorcyclists trucks have also killed in London?

Boris keeps on going on about wanting to increase the numbers of cyclists and I guess he has a budget for his policy. Petitioning him to assign some of that money to produce these sorts of ad campaigns might not be beyond the realms of possibility.

does anyone like the LCC or the Oliver Schlick keep a record of who has died and where at all?

I think it would be useful info if we were going to write to our respective representatives, just to highlight the repeated tragedies that happen with Lorries and dustcarts on our roads and to show that these aren't isolated events but situations which keep repeating themselves again and again.

My thoughts are for the rider today....so sad.

have also emailed the bbc

want to write to Boris, but not quite sure where to start!!!

To those who are thinking about writing to Boris, have a look at this thread

http://www.londonfgss.com/thread24701.html

I am trying to see if a coordinated approach is possible.

Fair enough, you don't have to take up the mantle of campaign leader to make a difference. But if there were a campaign, you absolutely should be in it for the long haul. Doing one easy thing isn't enough to change anything, there needs to be commitment and occaisionally sacrifice. I'm tired of seeing these one shot Earth Day style campaigns that people buy into to make themselves feel better about something. They end up meaning nothing.

I am in total agreement with you. And I like to think I am of strong enough character not to require another 'Rider Down' thread to remind me of my responsibilities as part of this community

Question is, are you prepared to make that kind of commitment or will your desire for change wane by the closing credits of Neighbours?

My motivation for posting here wasn't to put myself forward as a campaign leader! However, I have had a growing feeling that I could be doing more to raise awareness of these issues. I noticed a few people were thinking about writing to Boris and I thought I would raise the possibility that these could be coordinated to greater affect and it seems I am not the only one http://www.londonfgss.com/post786144-92.html

Rest In Peace fellow cyclist.

I was thinking the same as T-4003; we should have a forum(s) campain / petition to send to the major and all the local PM's. Even a template letter which we all use and send with our own details, everyone submit a few emails and letters per week.
Personally I wouldn't know where to start in a letter about frequent cyclist fatalities on London roads.

http://www.londonfgss.com/thread24701.html

I think that it would be too easy to ignore the weight of feeling behind this if any standardised template is used. If, however, there were a concerted effort from a large body of people, each sending individual messages, then provided the facts and figures used were consistent, I cannot see them just being filed away.

I agree personal messages will always carry more weight than a standardised one or a petition,

A coordinated response has to stand the best chance of success, .
Individual messages with a consistent appeal is a good idea, possibly combined with some more direct methods?

A list of all the recent incidents would be useful to paste in. Oliver / Charlie - does the LCC keep anything like this?

I think it is essential to keep the message consistant and the facts/stats accurate.

For my own two cents worth, you want to do something that is very clear and very public.

has every one seen this thread?

http://www.londonfgss.com/thread24553.html

I think a coordinated approach is important. Maybe if we encouraged people to write a personal letter to Boris we could collect them up and deliver them in bulk during one of these protest rides.

There have been a number of tragic rider-down threads recently, many involving HGVs. I have been left feeling angry and sad after hearing of these incidents which sometimes sound so preventable.
I am sure I’m not the only one who has had a tear in their eye especially after reading posts from family and love ones of those who have died.
On the latest thread (http://www.londonfgss.com/thread24674.html) some members have indicated they intend to write to Boris Johnson (Major of London) to try to raise the profile of these incidents to try and improve the safety of cyclists on our streets (e.g. http://www.londonfgss.com/post785732-65.html)

I too want to confront our politicians about these issues but it struck me that maybe a coordinated response from this forum would achieve much more. It is my feeling that to achieve this coordination we may be need to decide on what exactly we want to draw attention to and what we want Boris to do about it.

I have UTFS and the most relevant thread seems to be this: http://www.londonfgss.com/thread23108.html

Instead of repeating all of the arguments contained in that thread I propose that this thread be used simply to facilitate a coordinated email or letter campaign directed at the Major.

So what do we want?..... A petition, a standardised email/letter for each member to send separately or just clarity on the stats and facts so everyone can draft their own letter

And what issues do we focus on? ….. lack of coverage/debate about cyclist deaths, the dangers of HGVs, traffic enforcement, motorist awareness, poor cycle lane design, cyclist awareness etc etc

But of course everyone is an individual, so maybe it’s best if everyone just does their own thing and writes to BJ (if they want) with their own thoughts.What do you think LFGSS?............ Feel free to kick my idea into the weeds!

This is absolutely sickening. RIP, my thoughts are with the family and friends of the victim.