Search results for:

The office is in SE1. I could certainly meet sometime next week.

Hi, did you guys meet up? Did the ride ever happen? Sorry, think I was off radar then.

Stuff on Radio4 You and Yours yesterday about punishing cyclists on the pavement, and sthg on R4 Womens Hr the day before about girls get killed because they hang back and are not as assertive. What Bllx. Im writing to them.
Your final list of deaths is really helpful. Ive spent ages getting that together to find youd already done it. We need a spreadsheet with more info for each incident, so we can see patterns, so when people publically make presumptions and ill-informed comments, we can respond.

Hi everyone,

Thanks so much for all your efforts. Apparently we made a real difference in Strasbourg, and with all your letters. We have 323 signatures which leaves 46 to get. Because we are so close we have been granted an extension until 10 March.

The spreadsheet of responses on eildihcairns.com/campaign is being updated to show those signed and not signed. Slovenia (100%), Ireland , Lithuania & The UK achieved the best results with both Portugal and Romania achieving over 60%.
We had our worst result from Sweden...? Prob cos legislation is already tighter there than we are proposing.
Someone has sliced and diced the names so we can see who we target next.
Richard Howitt who promised that all Labour would sign did not sign himself.....the only labour MEP not to sign.
6 Conservatives were unsigned, arm twisting of Giles Chichester did not work.
Looking unsigned by grouping it looks as if there are sufficient European liberals and greens with a few others to get the numbers we need.
Website will be updated with this stuff soon.
Many many thanks to all.
Ktee

done.

Response claiming my BNP MEP will consider signing it...

Dear Danielle,
Many thanks for your email on this important subject, this is certainly something that Mr Brons will consider signing.
best wishes,

Chris Beverley
British National Party

Has he considered it yet? I dont think hes on our list.

Yes, please come along to Hyde Park Corner. Will have TV crews and reporters. Lets make some noise. Its a lot easier than going to Strasbourg!

Thanks for picking this thread up again.

"...if it obtains the signatures of a majority of the European Parliament's 736 MEPs (all nationalities) then it will show that the parliament wants the EU's executive body, the Commission, to take action and to draft EU-wide legislation."

Correct, and there are only 72 UK MEPs. We are doing really well but we need to penetrate other countries now. Please can you circulate as far and wide as poss? And anyone got any EU journo connections? Or contacts with Tour de France so we could hit all those countries??

Ideas and proactive action for EU dissemination gratefully rec'd.
Eilidh's Big Sis.

How will your cycle stuff get from manufacturer to shop? Or food to supermarket?

Argggh! I hate this (non) argument. It is not Sainsburys killing cyclists. The stats are clear. It is tipper trucks, skip lorries and cement mixers. ie construction vehicles, those designed for site and mud and stockpiles, not for narrow urban densly populated streets.

It is this unregulated and flybynight industry that is the problem. Not the retailers. I work in it too, speaking from the inside.

Tea Bee
Good luck teaching your children. Please tell them that they can also get run over from behind by a truck, even when in front of it and on the right. Even when travelling on a straight road with no turn offs.
See Eilidh Cairns, Anthony in Reading, and Im sure much more.
How can you stop one coming up behind you ? Fix mirrors on bikes and leg it when one comes for you?
Ask you builder merchants to get signed up to FORS and speak to the CVEU for advice before Boris Johson shuts it down (March next year). Report immediately any dodgy looking lorries. Ask them to get their drivers to cycle for a mile down the road with a truck coming up behind them too.
Good luck and well done for letting your children cycle.

This is very depressing reading.
In Eildih's case at Notting Hill there was apparenty "no evidence of contact" either. Why would there be. A massive dirty rusty lorry travelling a 9mph hitting a human body or simply clipping the rear wheel. (See the stunt on ITV programme last thurs at 8pm. You can see how easily the bike is brought down by a tiny contact from behind by the lorry. It is pretty clear there would be no physical evidence of this.) Why is noone asking if they would expect there to be evidence of a contact? (Evidence being material left on the other vehicle or sign of impact).
The police investigation report is implying that Eilidh fell off too!?!?!
Simply because she was wearing fixies. Totally ignoring the fact of how long she had been riding it. It is pure speculation on behalf of the police. It is outrageous that these are classed as "accidental" and therefore inveitable and therefore unavoidable.
This is a complete discgrace. Maybe she did fall off but on the balance of probabilities is that she didnt. Just look at her experience.
They are taking the easy option.
Eilidh's inquest is 22 January. I sincerely hope we dont have the same verdict but I expect we may well have. This is why witnesses are so so important.
I feel bad all over again now.

Meanwhile, is anyone up for a quick demo at City Hall tomorrow morning (wednesday 14th) before the Mayor's Question Time discusses him cutting all the funding for the only police unit in the country with the skills to assess safety procedures of HGV operating companies. ?

Yes, a demo. Except Im in northumberland and its a bit late in the day.
Here is a question that will be asked tmrw:

HGVs and safety
Question No: 2652 / 2009
Jenny Jones
Will the cuts to the Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Unit make London’s roads less safe for cyclists?

Just thought I'd point out that there's a mailing list set up at seemesaveme.com for the sort of statistical debate people have been having:

http://www.seemesaveme.com/wiki/index.php/Mailing_Lists

Join the Enforcement/Legal/Data list.

Of course, if you'd rather discuss these issues here, I'm not one to stop you, but it would be good to focus it in the work of the Action Group.

Please do join the SeeMeSaveMe group. This is a great discussion with loads of useful info. We need to capture it and use it.

Well said on this point below, totally agree. Kulveer Ranger and his special cycles for the poor wee girls cos they arent very confident... Eildih was hardcore, but careful, not at all reckless, and in front on the right!! Repeat - you are not safe on the right, nor in front.:

"But, more than anything else, the focus has to shift to i) the sheer volume of HGVs on urban thoroughfares, and ii) the lawless and reckless manner in which they're operated by drivers and their companies. These endless variants of the same article - what are the cyclists doing wrong? - only serve to reinforce the way (enforcement of) the law views operating motor vehicles as an inherently blameless activity."

More on stats. I am not convinced that analysing killed is the way forward. The numbers are so low as to be statistically insignificant, plus the key witness is not able to give their own account.

I think a more fruitful approach would be to look at KSI. Much bigger numbers.

Definately, seriously injured, injured and near misses would be good. Someone doing current research on all cyclist injuries treated by HEMS and someone else sent an email about the same sort of stats they are looking at at another hospital (cant remember which).

Lets get it all on SeeMeSaveMe.

By the way, I just found an email back from Jonathan Mitchell, Adonis's Private Secretary, when I was asking for an IV with him. His closing comment expressed his sympathy especially as a cyclist but concluded:
"The recent spate of incidents involving HGVs has certainly altered my cycling behaviour."
Maybe Im being over-sensitive but it implies again that the cyclist can avoid these incidents by riding correctly.

this is a major task in one of our groups - enforcement and data group.
boris et al are doing nothing to focus on the reasons for the deaths of experienced cyclists by hgvs. many many of them are. at least half of the women this year.

we need stats on the collisison, who, when, why, who involved, experience of cyclist, familiarity of route, awareness of hgvs etc eg eilidh had done the same route for 3 years (a 20mile round trip), had read the stuff about dangers of hgvs and discussed it with friends, had cycled in london for years, she was in front on the right. in her own lane. there is a blind spot in front and on the right. please note! it was measured at 1.2metres!!
boris is not tackling this stuff, and wont admit this is a problem he is not tackling.

only with these stats can we have a good case and a credible argument, sthg that is impossible to ignore or dismiss.
we need to contact all the families of previous victims and try and find this out. we need to design a checklist for the police to fill in on each crash. we need an annual analysis of this info and conclusions drawn. then they can act on the right and relevant info instead of putting in measures that look good in the press but that dont deal with the issue. ie the other party in all this, the hgvs. the party with no incentive to do anything; no fear of harm and no fear of public outrage and no fear of financial penalty and no fear of legal penalty, when they kill someone.

join the working group if you can help on this.... will be up on the website this week

Ya Em! Boris bothering!!!

Yes, Em, this Boris Question Time on mon 10th Nov is straight after the next HGV Cycling meeting is it not!?

A great forum for action. Will check if its too late for BBC2. Doubt Boris will let us film inside but we could deffo hijack him and pump up the coverage beforehand.

He will prob have media there....?! Maybe we can smuggle in placards (or eggs, or sthg more relevant...) Sthg for the action group to consider...

Dear All

Thank you so much for trecking across London to spend your precious time with us last night. Those who couldnt make it thank you for you offers of help.

What we need to do now is ensure we dont loose momentum and make sure we have a communication system that captures every issue and every person. We need a group of people who can devise this - lead by velocio and adam? (who I was talking to last night).

We envisage a working live network divided into the working groups we created last night, and managed by a leader - are the leaders last night happy to continue leading, or otherwise the groups can decide themselves if there is an obvious leader.

It is really important for the leader to have the time and inclination to take control of that group, pick up all the offers of help and organise how they are going to collect their issues, choose their priorites and organise their action and most importantly feed back to the rest of the group. They could nominate a deputy to help. I envisaged each group has a list of members with their skills - like we did on the orginal list - and then each group meeting (probably in person at least at first) and working out their action. And then the leader feeds back to everyone once a month - maybe the last monday of each month - their issues, and we can all vote on any decisisons by the friday of that week.

An example: we need a logo, and we need stickers. The design group meets, with everyone bringing their proposals (but also starting off with what already exists and has been done by others - this isnt a new problem - I have seen at least 3 existing sticker designs already) the group plays with the ideas, decides on the top three. The top three are fed back, by the leader, for everyone to vote on. By the friday of the last week of the month we have a result. Then we can all go and and post our stickers (also need to decide how to source, print and distribute them - dont forget about these admin/implimentation issues as well - the best ideas are no good if we cant bring them all the way to fruition).

And meanwhile the direct action group are coming up with their top 3 proposals of direct action eg where and when we do a guerilla sticker dump eg a windscreen sized bike on each hgv windscreen we see with a strapline 'Now can you see me?', or targeting specific companies like turning up at crossrail one day and blasting their trucks...

So we have co-ordinated, planned action that we all buy into, and that is as hard hitting as possible. We need to be coherent, we dont want one group running off doing stuff that others disagree with. We have to stay united and empowered.

So if the group leaders can email their conclusions of their workign group discussions last night to me at whathappenedonfeb5@ymail.com I will write them up and post them.

Meanwhile we need to set up a system so the groups can communicate with their members and everyone who couldnt make the meeting can sign up to their relevant group or groups (if the group becomes to big or diverse the leader just splits it in two, and allocates new leaders.) It is imperative that each group nominates one person to collect the main points and report back otherwise we will degenerate into chat and no action. Velocio and Adam and whoever can you work that out? maybe you need a comms/systems/network group to decide the best way. We need people in that group who can handle data, and distribute and organise. We dont wnat to re-invet the wheel so we need an area where we can put up all the kinds of info that we talked about last night, like the original 'no witness no justice' campaign, or the existing work at lambeth training all drivers and all the stuff that roadpeace is doing etc etc.

Ok? Email me your stuff asap and Ill write it up and post it. I have time today but going back up north friday when I will be struggling for time.

So, in conlusion, all this info that is coming in I, and anyone else, can just forward it to the relevant group to deal with and we should just run along ourselves like a well oiled machine....

I feel so relieved, like a massive weight of my shoulders. THANK YOU. I hope it works.

Don't reckon I can get there much before 7, so I'm out I guess. I'll keep an eye on these minutes.

@ Kate & co

Are you happy for people to turn up late, or will that be too disruptive?
(I can't see myself getting there until at least 6.30pm)

come late if you wnat.
at the end we will get into working groups and start planning action to go forward.

...is there anyone coming tomorrow who can take minutes?

Emma C

Sending on behalf of Kate:
Final details of Action Group Meeting.
Tomorrow - Tuesday 22 nd
6.00
Bridge Acadamy (school)
Hackney
Downstairs Lecture Theatre
Laburnum Street, Hackney, E2 8BA
on the canal between Kingsland Road and Queensbridge Road
http://www.bridgeacademy.hackney.sch.uk
Please give a £1 donation on the night for out of term activities for the pupils who are from the local area.
See you there.
Cheers,
Emma C.

Hi All,
Sorry we havent confirmed the venue yet! We are waiting to hear back from a really good place in Hackney, and if we cant get that, maybe a place in Chiswick.
Im offline tmrw but Ulfrasia will post to confirm as soon as we know.
Sorry to keep you hanging...

On a similar Policing theme; I don't know how much involvement LCC and others have with the police in terms of accident prevention but I sure the Roads Policing departments of the London forces may be interested in having an input.

The City of London Police, at least, are clearly aware of the problem of HGVs. It may be useful trying to contact Inspector Mountford and his Met counterpart.

Just a thought...

Yes, the problem is even though your man says ""This year the capital has already seen four cyclists lose their lives. We have to continue to educate all road users in the hope that injuries and deaths will be reduced."
All the keep doing is 'educating cyclists'. I dont see any measures to educate drivers, or construction companies, or haulage companies. Implicit in that is the inherent and ubiquitous assumption that it is the cyclsits fault. Look at all the action in this area, I have seen nothing that is not aimed at cyclists.
Working group - Focus of govt action....

His days are probably numbered anyway tbh.

Are you in touch with Jenny Jones? She's got and will keep great influencing power and is bound to be receptive to this.

Yes, IVd JJ for our witness clip: Eilidh Cairns - Appeal For Witnesses on Vimeo

She was good. It was she that pushed my request for a review of the investigation of Eilidh's case. Which we got but they wouldnt tell us the findings! ha ha.

see-mi was just an example of a simlar solution to fresnal lenses that goes further if you put more resources to it. i see problems in the system as well but fresnal lenses are no where near as good. my point is that (i think) we are campaining for more resources to be dedicated to solving the problem...

i agree with seak's point - we need to come away with a clear message. then push on it.

We want to come out of the meeting having mapped all the issues, ranked them in priority, ranked them in ease of success/implementation (ie we do easy wins first but get started on the hard slogs), ranked them in short, medium or long term action.

This will be our road map forward for sustained and long term relentless action. We will have a clear set of working groups with highly skilled and motivated people signed up, and clear tasks for each working group.

And a means to monitor progress and feed back.

I think we can achieve so much. Honestly.
We cant solve any issues in this meeting, just ID the problems and set people off to work out the best action. Eg, I dont know if we want shared road space or separate kerbed cycle lanes. There are arguments for both. But it needs research, case studies, facts, stats, and then a conclusion drawn on all that. Working group would include transport planners, safety people, etc etc. Lets not all argue all the issues, lets get the best people for each job.

We will put together what we think this should look like before the meeting as comprehesnively and accurately as possible, and then that can be our discussion document.

While I don't think I could bring much to the table for this particular meeting I do work for the National Policing Improvement Agency.

Amongst other things we produce policing manuals, for example our Specialist Operational Centre produced (together with ACPO) the current Road Deaths Investigation Manual. If any systemic issues were identified with regard to police investigation of fatal collisions involving cyclists then I could at the very least put you in touch with the policy makers.

Treadders - so good to hear from you! I have LOADS of issues re the investigation, and ask any other family of a dead cyclist and Im sure they will too. I wrote a 7 page doc challenging their conclusions.
A draft guide for familiies has been drawn up but apparently it encourages families to ask "too many" questions of the police they dont like it and want it changed, as they think it implies they dont do a good job. Dont get me started on this one....
The first thing you could do is make the Road Death Investigation Manual - a good document I have read very well - compulsory instead of advisory. I dont think many Senior Investigation Officers will have read it as well as I have. Becuase it is not mandatory, so it is nearly worthless if they dont wnat to do what it suggests. Im sure they have enough compulsory stuff to read.
Working Group - Investigation

Have been thinking about this overnight and one suggestion that comes to mind is that any campaign/action that is undertaken comes from base of good information. At one point, concerned about accidents and fatalities on the road, particularly involving cyclists, Toronto comissioned a coroners report on road traffic accidents with a focus on cyclists. The report that was produced was well received by all parties for being clear, impartial and based on factual and credicle evidence.

If I may put on my cold-hearted and impassionate hat for a moment: There is one area where we can benefit from fatalities is that they are well documented. Although reports may be littered with opinion they will always contain a lot of simple facts. I think that it could well be beneficial to request a coroner to be commissioned to conduct an enquiry into all cyclist and H/LGV fatal accidents in London over the past 7-10 years to provide an impartial, factual evidence based report on the factors that affected and were related to those accidents. If nothing else it would mean that you have credible and reliable information available when approaching skeptical/cynical stakeholders although it could well provide much more as the Toronto study did.

Completely agree. Policitians dont listen to sob stories. They make policy on facts and stats, when they are indisputable and brought to their (and the public's attention). Already a couple of forum members have info and we have had someone contact us doing research on exactly this.

Working grop - Statistics.
Then we use these to influence policy. It is the starting point.

Lord Adonis would presumably be a good target being in charge of the UK's transport strategy.

Though I don't really know what I'm talking about.

Ha, tried to IV him too. Went to a lauch at HoC for his new strategy and collared lewis hamilton whislt I was there. Still trying to get an IV with him.
Adonis was just talking about speeding and other issues etc.

In terms of banning lorries from London even during peak hours, i think that will be a big ask especially with all the construction going on for the London olympics and that we need things like our bins collected and our supermarkets well stocked. However, as Bluequinn said earlier, it can be worth asking for big in the aim of getting a compromise.

I have info that discussions are underway to review the London Lorry Control Scheme - which was devised for environmental reasons - to look at the potential to have operating hours changed so they dont travel in the rush hour.
Any thing is possible. We just ahve to go for it. The door is open on this one, we have to find out exactly where to push.

i have tried interviewing the RHA for ages - they are not very keen.
This is sthg particularly I want to do, engage with the whole construction adn haulage industry.
Working group - Engagment.
I am toying with the idea of inviting my family liasion officer - although I think he is on leave- and a traffic police guy I know....

Thanks for posting this.

In addition to Bill's (no doubt) excellent 'shopping' list of people to get onto, what is the mileage in getting the Road Hauliers' Association, whatever is the LGV licensing body and traffic police to start addressing this issue with the weight it deserves? There's no one on that list from lorry drivers' perspective or the enforcement end of things. This can't turn into LGVs VERSUS cyclists, this should be LGVs AND cyclists trying to develop a new more respectful relationship. As far as I can tell, the RHA, traffic police and whichever body licenses drivers of LGVs aren't making this a priority.