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Blimp is awesome, but so is Red Shoes: how do you choose? P&P are my favourite film makers (deceased) and the Cohen Bros my favourite (extant): can't beat a good double act!

I am actually in the market for a small wheeled bike, but a) it would cost me almost as much to schlep up to town to collect it and b) I'm a bit short at the moment (see the For Sale section).

If it hasn't sold in a couple of weeks, I'll be in touch to see if we can't work something out...

It certainly is Peter D Carter

Do you like my poetry? June is very well by the way
One of the greatest films ever made: FACT!

Peter ***D ***Carter? "I'd rather a Raleigh 20 than fly through Hitler's legs..."

I detect, like me, you're endowed with the gift of gab.
I flatter myself such is the case. In my line, it's plum necessary.
The one thing you don't want...

The wind behind me
Water bottle is my friend
Watch that taxi door

is air in the conversation.
.

Actually undibs as I believe 10 speed campag shifters don't work with sjimano gears (winter bike sadly has shimano) without buying extra bits whilst 9 sp would have...
I can't be arsed to trawl through this, but you might find it useful...

With a new frame on its way, I need to part with these "bound to come in useful at some point" shifters.

All you Campag-ninjas will need no explanations, but for the uninitiated these are primo pieces of Italian hotness, which are available at "it's a steal, it's a deal, it's the sale of the fucking century" prices on account of their used condition (check eBay).

First up are a pair of Record carbon Ergo shifters; originally 9 speed, they have been converted to 10 with Record ratchets.

The levers need a coat of clear nail varnish, the tear in the hood wants a piece of tape on the inside to hold it in place and if you can get another insert for the rear that would be peachy but is by no means essential (it just plumps the hood out and isn't really noticeable once fitted).

£45 posted - sold

The next jaw-dropper is this pair of mighty fine Record 9 speed bar-end shifters: snickety-snick, they are crisp and classy.

In "are you sure they're not ex-display" condition, the only reason you are getting them for this once-in-a-lifetime price, is because each shifter is missing one of the three shims that hold them in the bar end: needless to say they stay in place just fine.

£45 posted - px in part payment for a f&f

Dibs? PM? Who cares? Fight it out amongst yourselves!

Payment by bank transfer; if you must use Paypal, then you pay the charges and I will not post until the money is transferred into my bank account (3/4 days minimum).

Sounds like you did well: pictures!

Have you seen this?

Are you selling the shifters? I've put an 8 speed wheel in my old Pug, but only have 6 speed indexed shifters: messy...

...It's currently sporting Cinelli stem and Cinelli criterium bars, Sachs Huret Rival rear mech, Mavic Module E 700c rims, Nervar cranks, simplex shifters, weinmann brakes, 105 levers.

Can't for the life of me match the spec and frame decal colours to anything from the catalogues. Red frame with black decal never seems to occur. Always white decals. It's possible parts have been upgraded along the way. I'm not going to argue to cinelli bits hanging off of it...
That style of Peugeot logo and the "rainbow" decal scheme date it to between 1984 to 1988.

Have a look at the hubs, Maillard were common OE and use a plain date code of two groups of two numbers, with the first group being the week and the second being the year.

Obviously the Cinelli cockpit isn't original, but everything else could be. However, if the 105 levers were OE then you would expect to see Shimano throughout, so I think they were an upgrade.

How long is the Veloce BB?

PS The cranks look like Athena. Campag didn't use plain date codes, so 94 doesn't mean 1994; there's a lot of confusion around this, but to the best of my understanding "9n" in a box indicates "1993" and the "n4", the fourth quarter of that year.

Ahh right sweet, was thinking of getting some campagnolos ? theres a set on ebay for 55 quid atm. would they fit on this ?

and i bought this off someone in france ? not sure if that makes a difference to the bb ?
Velobase.com is your friend! In the example I've linked to, if you look in the section under the photos, on the left is "BB Length": this will tell you what length of spindle you need (hover over the "?" for an explanation).

If you're going to dabble in old Campag (the groupset name was added to parts from 1995) then you should become familiar with Velobase: lots of gear on eBay is not what the seller would have you believe it is...

As for whether being made in France affects the BB, you would know the answer to this if you had read what I linked to upthread.

...my only real query is the cranks and which ones will fit etc ? any help appreciated, thanks
It looks like a square taper crank, rather than anything more modern, so you'll have plenty of choice.

Which cranks will give you the right chain line, will depend on the length of the spindle: you need to measure that.

Having said that, you can get a new BB for around £20 (either loose bearing or sealed cartridge).

Have a look upthread, where I posted some links to a site with details about dating old Pugs and what threads Peugeot used and when.

Most likely an English BB, but double check before buying a new one.

Well I just purchased this frameset for my first build...
Nice frame, nice view!

It looks like the top of the seat tube narrows, so chances are you'll need a non-standard seat post size.

If you're lucky it will be 25.somethingIcan'tremember mm; if it's 24mm be prepared to pay around £50 (if you can find one).

Definitely 25.4mm and not 26.4mm?

Useful information here about bottom bracket and headset threading.

Timeline of decal styles on other pages.

Record carbon 9 speed converted to 10. Levers scraped up, tear in one hood.

£50 plus postage.

Let me know if you're interested and I will send you some photos.

It's all yours Scilly, I need to stop buying parts for wishful projects

Good news!

I need the frame to put all the parts I have bought for wishful projects on...

Depending on what HarryGrundy decides, I ***am ***all over that frame!

"The post lube wipe down..."

One of the funniest lines ever written on this forum.

Just don't use the Mother-in-law's curtains... (there I go again)

Thanks for the long reply but there are a couple of points i still don't get:

By oil i meant lube. I was describing my attempts to follow the method you linked to. It says to rub the chain clean, apply a little lube, work it in, then rub it clean again and repeat until: "When the rag stops picking up black crud the job is done." My problem is that on any chain that has done more than a handful of miles, i never seem to do get to that point. Each time i come to rub off the excess lube it carries a little more contamination out of the chain but it's a process of decreasing returns - after 4 or 5 iterations it is a lot cleaner, but still not actually clean. Does this not happen to you? When do you stop?

The post-lube wipe down is just to remove excess lube from the outside of the chain, so that it doesn't attract road crud. If your rag is becoming very dirty at this point then it is because your chain wasn't clean enough at stage one.

If you are beginning with a chain that hasn't been maintained in this fashion from new, then it is quite likely that you won't be able to get it spotless: this isn't a deep cleaning method, it's use prevents the need for it in the first place.

So you really do have the patience to poke rag through all hundred-odd gaps in your chain? To remove all visible contamination before that first lube application?

No. I have only ever used this method with new chains: the gunk between the links is excess lube mixed with road crud (which you don't get with this method).

If it's 1st generation then should be 112mm: can you check this? You should also know that the reason there was a 2nd generation, was because Laurent Fignon crashed out while leading the 1982 Giro D'Italia when the spindle snapped...

Yes, C-Record is just an abbreviation for Corsa Record (1985 - 1990). 2nd generation Record (1991 - 1994) also used 111mm spindles as did the rest of the "family": Croce D'Aune, Chorus, Athena and Veloce.

Yes, new chain rings are readily available (135mm BCD).

I can well understand that you don't have pockets deep enough for Super Record (C-Record is just as expensive and good Chorus isn't a long way behind), but if you aren't going to use the matching cranks then I really don't see much merit in using your BB; it's a flawed design (hence G2), getting on for thirty years old and at best it will be a bit of a bodge job (112mm BB with 111mm cranks).

The BB is the least important part of a restoration job (it is only apparent on close inspection) but one of the most crucial parts of a working bike (the drivetrain is built around it and huge forces are put through it). A period loose bearing BB for C-Record era cranks can be had for about £25, which is about what you will pay for a modern cartridge BB.

Apologies if I am banging on a bit, but having a 1991 Ian May and a 1989 Peugeot, I speak from bitter(sweet) experience.

If you can arrange to have everything conveniently to hand...

Rags and lube are all that's required.

I've never been consistent enough to get on with your method - sooner or later i get lazy and fail to lube the chain for a week or more, grime builds up, then i get frustrated as i can never get to the point where the rag stops picking up black grime - each time i add more oil, more black grime seeps out from within the chain. At what point do you stop?

I might have misunderstood you, but you don't use any oil: you wipe the chain with clean rags and then lube.

Also, how can your first rub clean get grime out of all the nooks so that the first application of lube doesn't carry it further in?

It's best to begin with a new chain, but you can twist thin rags or baby wipes into a point to poke between the links or try Bike Floss.

(I'm not attacking, i really want to know.)

No problem, I wouldn't expect you to just take my word for it.

It is a lot of work, but i'd argue a couple of your other points. When i deep clean i remove the chain and pull it through a park tool scrubby bath thing by hand. I use a modest amount of bio degreaser then rinse thoroughly by pouring water through the scrubby bath.

Bio degreaser alone is fairly benign environmentally. Once used it's obviously more of an issue, but i'd guess not as bad as letting the contaminants go un-emulsified. Bio degreaser might deal well with straight-forward oil? But more exotic stuff like teflon could be a more persistent hazard? Presumably your method sends oil-contaminated rag to landfill?

Good points: I suppose the most environmentally friendly method would be to use a bio-lube with my method.

My next step is to shake off what water i can then transfer to a plastic bottle and rinse with white spirit. I use two large jars to recycle the solvent. I take small portions of solvent from the 'clean' jar, shake with the chain until it's black then drain into the other jar and repeat until the solvent stays clear(ish). After a few days the grime settles out of the solvent and next time i come to use it i can carefully decant the from the dirty jar to the clean jar. Doing a final rinse with just a little fresh solvent makes up for the losses, so this is actually quite economical.

It may be "quite economical" but using no solvent at all is even cheaper.

I work outside with thick rubber gloves to minimise exposure to degreaser and solvent.

I re-lube while the chain is still damp with white spirit on the theory that as it evaporates it will draw the lube into the chain. Ideally i'll let the chain dry overnight or longer before i use it.

I'm afraid not: the clearance between pin and link might be tight enough to act as a capillary tube, but the evaporating solvent has to escape so it would, if anything, force the lube out.

(You say solvent damages lube - can that damage persist once the solvent has evaporated? I find that even 'wet conditions' lubes don't stand up to long road-rides in the rain - maybe that's why.)

The solvent will destroy the lube, so you will either have to, wastefully, apply more lube or ride with an inadequately protected chain.

I'm not saying this is perfect - i'm offering this up for comment and comparison. What do other people do? Does anyone get on with any of the dry lubes? I can never get them to keep chains from rusting.

Kudos for putting so much thought into your method!

However, the result is a overly complicated, messy, expensive and time consuming for results that are, at best, average.

All for the sake of spending five minutes once or twice a week on regular maintenance.

First up: definitely worth restoring that beauty with period parts (but if you don't, it looks to be my size cough, cough). I too love the seat cluster, sometimes refered to as "fastback" and usually an indicator of a top quality build.

To return to your original question, although others are right that, in practice, the difference in tapers is immaterial no-one has mentioned the chain line.

There were two generations of Super Record bottom bracket: G1 had a hollow axle and used bolts to secure the cranks, it had a 112mm spindle. G2 had a solid axle and threaded ends using nuts to hold the cranks on; the spindle was available in lengths between 112mm and 115mm.

Assuming you have a 112mm spindle then you could use any of the C-Record era (late 80s to early 90s) cranks, as they normally used a 111mm spindle (and 135mm BCD).

However, I have just bought both English and Italian threaded 111mm C-Record era BB for £20 a piece, so there doesn't seem much point compromising: either bite the bullet and get Super/Nuovo Record cranks to match the BB or get a complete C-Record era set-up.

No disrespect to LFGSS, but I think Retrobike would be a better source of information and parts: as the name suggests it is aimed at riders of older bikes and naturally attracts older riders who have experience of the sort of problems you will face with a bike and parts of this age.

I don't know if this is any good to you: I have a 1991 Maillard hub laced to a Rigida rim with a 7 speed Suntour freewheel, solid axle (not QR).

I'll need to build the hub back up as I stripped it down to give it a good clean and have gone Campag and 8 speed since.

I tried to get the freewheel off, but it is so tight it just mangled the extractor but the freewheel is still perfectly serviceable.

I don't want anything for it: just pay for the postage and return it to me when you get something better.

I've got cups so just the spindle will do, although a complete BB would be nice.

Many thanks.

UPDATE
Sorted now, thanks.

Record rear mech available again.