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Theres one on ebay.co.uk at the moment, i was looking at it but i've decided its just a bit too small for me at 56cm and i already have one that is too small for me a 52cm. Its got the wacky seatstay cluster...i think its about a hundred. Anyway just ebay search legnano its the only one on at the moment. If you spot a 60cm+ let me know!

I think £150 all-in would be a decent price on this. Looks nice, and will look better with the forks polished and chips painted.

looks like someone is going to get it for less than that,although the last minute bidding fever hasn't set in yet..added to watch list anyway.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170767711162

Legnano at 99 quids?

so a few pages back somebody posted about a seller in china selling some seriously cheap team jerseys / tights / bibs ... I ordered the team rapha condor set for £36.99 and FUCK ME, they're amazing quality. I can't over-emphasise what a bargain this is for the quality...

Just buy direct from dealextreme.com save yourself a couple of quid, they sell allsorts of random stuff cycling clothes included.

prep prep prep then take your time painting it, i know that's a pain for people who only have one bike and use it to commute. It is really the only way to do it right when doing DIY.

Fake OEM? It can't be fake if it's OEM - THEY are making it. Just because it's the same frame Pina chooses to use doesn't make it fake. Pina made the decision to purchase an OTP Chinese made carbon frame. If that OTP Chinese frame is sold to other brands or made available that's for them to decide.

Pinarello, etc. will lose customers because they are painting something made in China and adding £2k to the price tag for their brand to be stuck on it. People will still pay for the brand name but if this is watered down due to Italian companies out-sourcing to Chinese carbon manufacturers that's the fault of the Italians not the Chinese.

Chinese setting up and taking market share where? With what? You mean selling ACTUAL Pina frames? They might get away with it in China where western companies are pretty slack at pursuing IP infringements but they'll clamp down on it quick smart if the Chinese tried to sell Pina branded frames outside their borders. China does have IP and copyright laws.

Japanese motorbike manufacturing stole their ideas from western manufacturers, really? I know bugger all about motorbike history but as far as I'm aware Honda and Kawasaki don't copy the west, they invented a better product at the expense of the failing western options - similar to their smaller, better cars taking the place of gas guzzling Aussie and US makes during the oil crisis in the 70s.

Silk as an example, really? That was 2000 years ago..
http://www.silk-road.com/artl/silkhistory.shtml

If western companies want to keep using generic frames built in China and overcharging us for their logos then it's their own fault if we decide generic is 'good enough'.

The japanese took over the small motorbike market, because no one took them seriously...the same thing is going to happen with the bike market if we continue producing bikes in the far east rather than protecting an industry which has spent millions on R&D. Originally the japanese manufacturers copied modular manufacture techniques from the british industry. They also copied the german HOREX engine, the bmw flat engine and the revolutionary MZ two stroke engine. Yamaha and suzuki only started winning after they got hold of the mz engine design. In the end yes they did become successful because british bikes were shit..but they still copied large parts of their designs.

Pinarello charges £2k because of the price of r&d and everything else...sure the actual product might only cost 200 dollars to make, but thats not what you are paying for...next you will be telling me a car should cost the price of the materials and the labour to put it together.

Yes it is the fault of the italians outsourcing, thats why compagnolo are wise to keep their brand inside europe. Just because someone pays you to make their frames doesn't mean you should go out and sell blank ones. Chinas idea of ip and copyright is laughable, there is a reason why it is where the majority of fake products come from. You try setting up a factory knocking out fake luis vuiton handbags anywhere else in the world, you'd be shut down and sued to death in no time.

The way you are talking it is as if the chinese are the ones designing these things, they aren't...they are merely the manufacturers...who are knocking out unpainted extras on the side and selling them. Pinarellos attempt to keep costs down by outsourcing is going to come back to bite them in the arse. The dogma frame contains 7 years of research and development, but they are made in china those 7 years have to be paid for somewhere...not by knocking out oem ones.

Yes i did use silk as an example, because it was one of the last example of the chinese actually inventing something completely by themselves rather than imitating usually poorly products from other countries. Go look up a list of chinese inventions, you will see what i mean. Christ they even produce fake food, like fake rice from plastic and poison their own people with baby milk tainted to fake the protein count in tests.

But is it such a big problem though? SRAM doesn't seem to mind, and they make all their stuff in Taiwan?

Its a massive problem! look at all the fake OEM carbonfibre frames on ebay, if they start to get a reputation for being just as good as the original issue frames then why would anyone spend the extra money to buy the real one?

Slowly but surely companies like pinarello are going to lose more and more potential customers. When your potential market is already small that's seriously bad news, I can see them regretting it in the long term. That OEM bike isn't going to pay R and D costs, it isn't going to pay for the sponsorship of the big competitions or the other advertising costs.

Plus if all the stuff is made in china, well then what's to stop a chinese company setting up and taking market share?...because after all the chinese stuff will be just as good as the campag stuff because that's where they will have learnt their trade.

You are starting to see it now with chinese motorbikes, ok the first generation are rubbish but they are honda & suzuki clones...when they finally iron out the issues they are going to dominate the market, just as the japanese did back in the 60s & 70s I think the japanese are going to live to regret having sold the chinese the old machining for their engines.

Look at the chinese throughout history and you will see that things they invented like silk they kept the secret to themselves and built a big wall. That's exactly what europe and the west should be doing with its intellectual property because the chinese have zero respect for intellectual property or copyright.

Building a factory in Eastern Europe instead of Asia, the world's largest OEM market.

If they had built the factory in asia they'd have the market flooded with fake campag gear within months, so i can certainly see the logic of keeping the factory closer to home.

I agree with the rest of it though.

Me receive a kicking from my neighbours.. that's a funny thought.
I may as well live in a retirement village. They'd not even hear it.

you may laugh but those titanium hip replacements ensure massive leverage...never mess with a pensioner you never know which one is robocop equipped.

i love this idea - but no

this- he only did it to save weight.

In any case I wasn't saying you won't enjoy cycling with DT shifters or retro parts -just that I don't see why you would given the choice between that and a modern group? New stuff works so much better - and its not all ugly

I read he used them because you can microadjust better with DT shifters to avoid rub, I doubt it was to save weight because there was no weight limit in the tour when he was doing it...and the saving would be negligble.

I've noticed these days a lot of people shift too much, too early, etc. Sometimes I'll pass people on relatively flat terrain and then after they are behind me I'll hear them shifting up and down and back again while I stay in the same gear. I also notice people shifting way too soon going into a slight rise and losing momentum. Really the joy of london is that its not got many massive hills in it, that's why its perfect single speed / fixie territory...with dt shifters you grind a bit harder for a bit longer. Whilst i'm sure that might be an issue if you were in a race, in the real world its not a big issue.

I do own an sti bike as well as old steel, so i can accept the advantages of it...even if i do find myself reaching for air whilst trying to find the DT levers when its been a while since riding it.

Modern stuff can look beautiful but i think it looks beautiful when kept in context, out of context it looks a bit naff...There are some exceptions where they have the right look though, mainly campy stuff like athena even the alloy centaur isn't too bad.

Anyway to each their own.

I thought Lance ran a downtube shifter on the left for the front mech, and an STI lever on the right for the rear mech?

This is only a vague memory of seeing him with a miss-matched pair of 7400 series levers however.

BTW, Moot.

yes to the mech bit, yes to the sti bit and yes to the moot bit.

Cool...is the seatpost alu? Mate of mine just melted a stuck one out with a Base (Caustic Soda?). Ate up the aluminum pretty quick. Had to strip the components off the frame first, obviously...

+1 to that mine took a day or two but it does itself whilst you get on with other stuff.

The neighbours would love me parking that thing out the front of the flat!

They'd like me leaving even more.. bye bye tyres..

7.4litre engine? they could walk the 100 yards that you would get before running out of petrol and give you a kicking too. I wonder what its actual mpg is, but 7.4 litres of fun for the price of a second hand mondeo?...awesome.

i thought credit checks screwed your credit history, the whole credit history thing is a bit of a black box no one really knows what is necessary to get a perfect score...I think the key is having lots of liquid money whilst having a history of repayment, but i know people who are constantly in debt who have better credit than me.

Agreed but it illustrates another murphie's law in that whichever great gruppo part you pass on due the rarity of the other bits, those other rare bits will magically appear shortly afterwards. The converse of this is also the case but much more expensive.

murphies law will screw you one way or another anyway...so its not worth worrying about. You won't get a flat for a month then you'll get 3 in a week.

put new stuff on old bike and ride it. It's the way forward. Downtube levers are shit for climbing, or riding in a group, or anything really, heavy stuff is crap too. I can understanding wanting to resurrect a beautiful frame, but worrying about which year the brake levers are from or spending a year putting together a nuovo record group from the same year is just silly.

I don't understand the obsession with period correct-ness with bikes that you actually own (in a museum? Fine...) - the people who seem most obsessed with it seem to be the people who ride their bikes the least anyway and therefore not worth listening to :)

Met a guy last night (I think he's on here as dangermouse?) who had the most incredible Moser frame, built with 11spd Super Record, fizik saddle, dt 585 rims etc etc and it looked AMAZING. Bet it rode beautifully too.

Damn those downtube levers they must be shit, it couldn't perhaps be the rider? no its absolutely nothing to do with the rider. After all there was no tour de frances when there were only downtube shifters and if there were they took place only on the flat to avoid climbing (they also avoided riding in groups.) Whilst we are on the climbing comment could you explain why lance armstrong continued to select downtube shifters for his mountain stages then? even in 2004 when bar shifters were available.

If you think heavy stuff sucks then you shouldn't even be considering an old frame, because you could get a far lighter carbon frame for a lot less money direct from china. There is a also a difference between being completely anal about trying to pick up specific year parts or putting something from the same general era onto a bike. Putting new stuff on an old bike is like putting new stuff on an old car, just as a 1960s car looks stupid with modern alloy wheels and neons so does a bike with new gear...but then again it is as always only an opinion.

I do agree that people waiting a year to put a bike together is stupid, but you can happily ride the bike with lesser parts whilst getting the parts together (plus I bet most people on this forum have more than 1 bike, so it's a bit of a mute point)

The most important thing is that it is ridden and in the end that's all that matters, if someone wants to build up a classic bike with modern gear then that is their choice. After all it is far better that it is ridden with new gear than not being ridden at all. So basically we agree... /ends rant.

when i say old i mean a 2000 bike with some 2008 bits on, it's not like a classic chrome lugged rarity

2000 isn't old... not yet anyway, do whatever in that case!

I'd like to know where it all is. As far as I can see building up a period gruppo takes TIME.

Also you can't fit modern 10sp to older and beautiful campy wheels?

Campyoldy,all the different ebay's, local bike shops...sure it takes a bit of work but the end result is worth it in my opinion. Everything that is worth doing takes time, but it makes the end result all the sweeter.

Depends on the bike, there is plenty of new old stock floating about so there is no real excuse for going modern.

Ouch.. http://my750.com/

hahaha good times, Stick to the 3 and 5 series.

Logicalduck,
That legnano is not the real thing and it has too modern specs and the size is not correct (2nd link) and like so many times than they speak very bad english so corresponding is difficult and to make things worse they don't want to ship outside there own country.

You find me one you like on the italian ebay, which is probably your best bet...i'll talk to them don't worry about their rubbish english, i'm a happily bi-lingual duck most of them say they won't ship outside of italy untill you suggest it to them...that's just lazyness / stupidity on their part.

Amarillo slim in a world full of fat people...the guy certainly got about, an interesting biography

definitely worth a read, picked it up in the 3 for 2 at waterstones a while back as my free wildcard book...plesantly surprised.

Currently, 2,000 people a year are die from nanny state paranoia induced asbestosis. You can lick it all you want, but inhale the dust, and you're fucked.

Funny, the government website says it was 117 last year (with most of the cases confined to over 75s) but even if it were 2,000, in the grand scale of things considering how much asbestos is out there and for the amount of time it's been in use that really is quite a miniscule number.

The actual risks depends on the specific type of asbestos too, there are varying levels of danger depending on the type. Its one of those things though, a bit like smoking...There are people who worked round it all their lives and have no ill effects, then there are people who only did a few jobs and have come down with asbestosis.

Still a great product for what it was designed for though, but obviously you have to take the right precautions...i wonder if we would have 2,000 cases if employers hadn't been cutting corners on the safety gear back in the day to save themselves a few quid? I know my grandad was scrubbing asbestos tanks in the shipyards by hand and they were given nothing but a rag to cover their faces with. He did wind up with lung problems from it, but as he always said something is always going to get you one way or another.

Be interesting to see how many cases of asbestosis style illness cases there will be in the workforces of these carbon nanotube producing factories in china in 30-50 years time, something tells me that safety for the workers can hardly be top of the agenda if they are knocking out frames at less than 220 dollars a piece.

Anyway if you are considering cutting down any carbonfibre parts, it's handy to know that there is a link to asbestosis so you can take the necessary precautions to keep the dust down and wear appropriate gear.

Back on topic, my friend has just ordered a few carbonfibre bits including a seat,seatpost and handlebars from one of the ebay sellers so i shall get to have a closer looksie soon! in the mean time i am saving up the pennies.

Not if he's nicking it from work

your dad had a job? told you that it was posh!

http://cgi.ebay.it/bicicletta-da-corsa-Legnano-1979-in-acciaio-/170690104496?pt=Biciclette&hash=item27bdec4cb0

^ The 1980s one for 170 euros incase anyone fancies it...

also there is this guy you could try in siena, he might ship to the uk can't hurt to ask...his advert is also woefully short on information.

http://cgi.ebay.it/BICICLETTA-DA-CORSA-LEGNANO-USATA-BUONE-CONDIZIONI-/280735071974?pt=Biciclette&hash=item415d1d3ee6

if you want a hand with the language issue of contacting / discussing with them, I can do it for you? just drop me a pm.