Search results for:

Edscoble, why would I be racist for what I just said? I thought that you would know rather well the usual difference between Taiwanese and Chinese working conditions which is normally reflected in the costs and quality.

Edscoble, I do claim that they are similar rims, and the fact that they are made in Taiwan and not in China like H+Son should actually mean that they are potentially better made and certainly in better working conditions.

Edmundro, yes I can confirm we sold 2 of those 3k bikes to customers that were super pleased with them.

über_grüber, if you think that we are being judged on my words/actions and not on the history that we are still carrying forward 5 years later or the perception that people have of Foffa Bikes without knowing the facts, then I certainly feel we are being judged very unfairly, since nobody has yet come to our shop try our actual products and since we have admitted the issues we had in the past and have rectified EACH one of them over the years.

ElGato, we have a couple of brown Swift going for £90 (usual RRP 120), a slightly used B17 in honey for £30 and a couple of brand new B17 in green also for £30 (usual RRP 70). Brooks tapes in black, brown and honey for £30 also (usual RRP 45).

Plexarice, we have too many helmets to list (Giro, Lazer, Bell and hardnutz) but they are most of them in black, a couple red and a few chrome Hardnutz all going for around 15 - 20 (usual RRP 35).

Pj266, we have a Brooks tool bag in brown going for 35 (usual RRP 65)

Dancing James, thank you for reporting us on craigslist, you clearly made it your life mission to support us in any way you can.

Townshend1989, We have Knog Boomer USB ones (black and white) at £35 (usual RRP 65) and Knog Frog (black and white) at £10 (usual RRP 20).

TM, I dont think a pre-built bike like the Charge Hob can be compared to our Grazia which comes with millions of combinations, is built in the UK (with London salaries and overheads) and comes from a company has a completely different buying power than CSG. But hey, 5 years later we have learned this lesson, which is why it now makes sense to close down the London shop, and go down the fulfilment centre route.

über_grüber, how am I full of it?

What do you know about our QC processes that we apply these days?

What chances do I have to justify the 3k price of the geared bike we displayed at the London Bike Show when the sum of the parts (based on the standard RRPs) is still over 3k but some of you will keep saying how you can get a cheaper Campag bullet wheelsets and Chorus groupsets from the alike of CRC?

How can you justify H+Son charge what they charge for their Chinese made rims and have a go at us for doing something very similar made in Taiwan for half the price?

Why dont you come and grab a set of our wheels and then actually be in the position of making some of the accusations you are suggesting?

As for the Wiggle bikes this is exactly the point I am trying to make. Whenever the bikes are made in the Far East and shipped directly to the Wiggle warehouse then we have no overheads or UK salaries to pay whatsoever, which is the only reason why Wiggle is able to retail them at around £300 and we can still make a profit.

Thank you Velocio for taking the time to speak your mind, I am glad to see that there are still very reasonable people in this supposedly supportive cycle community.

Skydancer, I really appreciate your fair response and you are more than welcome to pop by the shop at some point to take a few bikes for a spin and judge for yourself.

As for the price point of our products, we have always listened to the people saying that they thoughts they were too high (not sure then what these people would think about at least 90% of the other bike brands out there, but these are the same people that look for bargains on Ebay and have the tools and expertise to put their bikes together, so clearly not everyone can be pleased in this world), but I dont think these people have ever really bothered to step into our shoes and take into account the overheads associated with renting a warehouse in London, London salaries (rest assured that we pay our staff more than what Evans or Halfords do) as well as marketing costs, etc.. Personally I have not taken any money out of the business in the first 2 years and now I am just taking enough to live a modest life, and I must admit it is a bit frustrating that we still get people slagging off our brand without knowing the facts.

Having said this the reason we are having our clearance sale is that we have decided to close down the shop to start selling only pre-built bikes based on our best selling designs and sell strictly online which will allow us to cut costs and take the prices down considerably. Our single speed range revolved around a cromoly frame set and a set of triple wall deep Vs with picture protection tyres will retail at £360 and I am very curious to hear what some of you will have to say on these bikes.

Here is an image of one of the models to give you an idea:

Edscoble, not sure why you are comparing us to a Halfords manager after I just said that the choice on the seat angle was due to aesthetics reasons and that I would never suggest to ride it like that so that people "go faster" or "less pressure on their privates".

And edscoble, JamesSW and privatepatterson, the factory that makes our wheels is in Taiwan and said they worked for H+Son in the past as well, but actually on this one you might be right, since I just did some research and H+Son are actually made in China (http://stuffdavelikes.wordpress.com/2013/02/04/h-plus-son-tb14-rims/, http://velospace.org/forums/discussion/2947/velocity-deep-v--hson-rims-made-in-taiwan/, http://bencollette.com/productbyprocess/2011/03/bike-rims-h-plus-son/).

But to be honest comparing our rims to Espresso or Mango is not a good attempt to defame our company further.

See comparison below:

http://f0ffabikes.com/cnt/EF.jpg

If you have so much to say publicly about how poor our parts are then I suggest you buy a set from us and then you ll be in a position to tell everyone what the facts are. They are going on sale for £100 (which I would have thought is a pretty good bargain compared to what's out there) and I am sure you ll find enough of you that keep slagging our brand off to chip in to grab a set.

kaiseroscar, I forgot to mention they are 43mm deep.

Callmeaspy, we actually have a second hand all black Foffa deeps which we could give you at £70

young gun, add £20 and I d be happy to ship to UK

not4sale, we have at least 7 sets of slightly used wheelsets (some more and some less) so feel free to pop by the shop to have a look yourself.

Since we have quite a few deep wheelsets available which I wont be able to fit in my bedroom we have just decided to sell them at £100 and you can check some images on http://www.lfgss.com/thread120181.html

As part of our clearance sale we are offering a few of our brand new wheelsets at £100 (if paid in cash).
We would normally retail these at £195 and they are not the usual cheap Chinese Espresso or No Logo wheels.
The rims are very similar to H+Plus, triple wall and 43mm wide, the hubs are Japanese sealed bearing ones (flip flop hubs at the back).

We have a few in stock at our East London shop (unit 9 pinchin street, E1 1SA) so feel free to pop by (tue - fri 11am - 7pm and saturday 11am - 6pm) to grab a few bargains while they last.

We also have a few slightly used deep wheelsets going from £70 onwards.

Cheers,

Dani

4 years later and this thread is still rather entertaining! I must admit I'll never be able to understand what some people have against our brand and why some are able to hold grudges for so long, but once again allow me to clarify a few more points:

• über_grüber: the pic we used for the sale is 3 years old, we are well aware the saddle is not at a rideable angle but for the picture we thought this would give a more aerodynamic look, which is the only reason we took it this way, we would never give a bike to a customer set up this way. As for the 'fucking gimped bars' these are track bars and the angle is based on people's preferences so I am not entirely sure what all this criticism is about.

• Dancing James, my opening gambit in our conversation was not "what is your favourite colour" since it is not me you spoken to at the Sky Ride event, but probably one of our mates that were just trying to help us out which might not have been as technically savvy as me or our key team members.

• El greeno, I am not sure why you feel the need to mention about your 'vintage build' that you would have bought 5 years ago (if not longer) after we mentioned in this thread many times in the past that we admitted about the mistakes we made in the beginning and have rectified every issue we had, even fired 2 of our previous mechanics to increase the quality of our builds, that our current mechanic has 11 years of experience in the industry (as well as having been one of the mechanics for the British Triathlon team).
  On top of this we have always offered warranties with our second hand bikes (something that not many shops would do), how come you have never come to the shop to get any issues you might have had rectified?

We have said many times if you feel the need to slag off our genuine brand which has admitted its modest beginnings and has worked hard (and still is) to compete with the best the bike industry has to offer and always listen to feedback that any of you might have, how come nobody has yet turned up to the shop to actually take one of our bikes for a spin and give it a justified review after we have given all of you the chance to do so?

Hi all,

Some of you might know that we have decided to close down our East London shop to start selling strictly online which will allow us to put the prices down considerably, which some of you have given us feedback about a number of times.

As a result we are clearing out all the stock we have left at trade price for most items.

This is an almost complete list of the stuff we have left:

• Bars - bullbars, straight, risers, drops (road and track)
  
• Oury-like & Brooks grips and Deda & Brooks tapes
  
• Quill stems
  
• Pedals - Shimano, Wellgo and others
  
• Straps & toe clips
  
• Foffa Deep Vs (in chrome and white), (which are basically H+Son rims laced to sealed bearing track hubs) for £120 for the set (usual RRP £195)
  
• Other various deep Vs from £70
  
• Classic lo-pro wheels with Sturmey archer 2 speed (£90 for the set)
  
• Tyres - Continental (Hardshell and Gatorskin), Schwalbe (Durano Plus, Durano, Lugano), Vittoria (Zaffiro, Zaffiro Plus)
  
• Fixed cogs and free wheels
  
• A few various bits for Shimano and Campag group sets
  
• Cyclocross and TT brake levers + various calipers
  
• Threaded forks in chrome and many colours (and a couple of Tifosi carbon threadless ones)
  
• Saddles - San Marco, Brooks, Foffa and Fizik
  
• Single speed chains in many colours
  
• Bags & rucksacks - a few Chrome messenger bags, Brooks tool bags and panniers
  
• Helmets - Lazer, Bell and Hardnutz
  
• Lights - Knog Boomer and Frog lights (black and white)
  
• Locks - Kryptonite Mini D, series 4 LS & a few cables
  
• Mudguards - SKS, classic chrome ones and a few full windsor ones
  
• Bike boxes
  
• Bike stands, a couple of ToPeak Two Up stands and a few bike covers
  
• Pashley Euro trailer
  
  

Due to the limited time we have at the moment we wont be able to check the responses from this post too often, but you are more than welcome to pop by the shop (Unit 9 Pinchin street, E1 1SA, 5 mins walk from Aldgate East tube) Tuesday to Friday 11am - 7pm or Saturday 11am - 6pm to grab yourself a few bargains while they last.

Everything needs to be cleared in the next few weeks so please tell anyone that might need any spares.

All the best,

Dani

This is the last post I am going to write on the matter since it seems like we are just running in circles now. There have been some valuable points raised and we will be taking them in consideration for the future.

Mechanical Vandal, let s assume you have purchased on the web all the parts that you listed from the cheapest online retailer out there. With the £164.10 difference that you keep mentioning, where do you factor in the tools to put the bike together and the knowledge to build the bike yourself? The service we provide is for the majority of cyclists that don't have the time nor the knowledge to build their bikes up.
The customers come in the shop and we guide them through the process of selecting the best parts for themselves, we offer post sales service and full warranty, so if you guys already have all the knowledge of all the components which the bike industry can offer, if you trust yourself on how to build a bike safely, if you have already invested in all the tools you need, then our bikes are not for you. If you don't have all of that, then our brand (considering it is not an OTP bikes manufacturer and the bikes are not built in China or Taiwan) is a very genuine business.

über_grüber, I merely quoted those prices cause these are the prices recommended by the distributors. What we or CRC choose to charge on these components is our decision, which will always be affected by our buying power. I never said that we are not trying to make a profit (I assumed that you knew the whole point of running a business is to make some) and the people and customers that know us would say that we are far from dishonest. As i said earlier if you think you can do better then by all means give it a go.

And thank you Andyp, Wiganwill, Howard and many others to give us some credit for what we do and all the valuable feedback.

All the best

Right. So you're now saying that your actual prices are cheaper than the RRP trade prices you yourself used to justify the pricing on that build? Why wouldn't you just use the actual prices you charge?

All I simply did was to quote the industry recommended retail prices for the components used to give you an idea of how much that build might cost, regardless of how much we have decided to charge for our parts.

And yes, not all the frames we used for our reconditioned builds were Legnano or 531, but the resprayed carlton or raleigh jobs were around the £250 mark, so I am not really sure what you expect from a £250 bike anyway (which we were still giving warranty for) while still trying to run a business.

As far your warranty goes, do you actually offer a warranty on a bike? Or do you offer warranty on the components of that bike? A warranty which is available whether you bought those items assembled into a bike or individually? So really, your punter pays £164.10 for a 1st service? I've worked in bike shops, I know what a first service entails. £164.10 worth of work it aint.

All our bikes come with a 12 months warranty on the full build, 5 years on the frame and forks and a free service.

On-One pompetamine, £99-factor in another £30 quid for a steel fork or go to town with the money saved and buy carbon. (you're welcome)

It's too easy if you quote parts which are discounted. The frame alone would normally retail at £200, the On-one Pompino forks £50 so still more than ours.

And I already said that I quoted the prices which are on the UK distributor catalogue, I am certainly not "massively inflated 'RRP' prices on EVERY COMPONENT" as you are implying.

And regardless of the fact that we stopped doing vintage bikes up 2 years ago (so not really sure why you keep going in circles with the same thing) we actually built up some amazing 531 Reynolds tubing, including some Legnano, Viner, Benotto, to name a few, so you should see the difference between the high-ten frames I talk about and the gaspipe 'vintage' frames we did ages ago.

As for the Condor comparison, our geared frame is actually made of Columbus lugged steel, whereas the cheapest Condor frame is TIG welded and made of a basic Dedacciai tubing. Then the Mavic wheelset usually retails at £850, the Campag Bullet 80's recommended retail price is £1317.99 although we actually sell them at £1199.00, so the wheelset is still far superior than the Mavic Carbone.

The problem you'll have here is that people here do have specialist knowledge, and they do remember those early bikes. I know you think that you need to win the PR war on places like LFGSS but I'm not sure you need to, really. The mainstream coverage you've been getting seems to have been very positive.

We are really happy with the positive mainstream coverage we are getting but we also appreciate the good feedback we managed to receive from some of the expert guys in this forum, so as JackC puts it, it is up to you to decide whether you are willing to support a genuine brand dedicated to improving its products and services to promote the cycling industry and community.

I clicked a pair of shoes to the checkout but I can't get to the checkout? I can't be bothered to sign up just to check if you have them in stock or not. Really bugs me when companies do that.

.A. if you are able to click on the item it means we have them in stock.

Or another 'yeah, but I still built a cheaper / better / prettier bike from something I found in Classifieds'...

I've just looked at your webpage. Your mixte bikes are pretty good looking - they must sell well?

Thank you christianSpaceman, we are doing pretty well on the Mixte frames. There don't seem to be many manufacturers doing decent bikes for ladies out there.

Regal, the Condor price I quoted earlier includes the 10% discount already.

Right, here is my answers to all the points you have raised:

Furious tiles, the only reason we keep persevering at protecting our brand is that people keep insinuating that we are ripping people off while we are not. Actually I will reiterate that we seem the only brand out there to offer not off-the-peg bikes at off-the-peg prices. The price for EACH COMPONENT that I have quoted on the 3 grand bike comes from the RRP of the UK distributors for those brands, so yes I can appreciate that on CRC you can get them for cheaper, but we don't have the buying power at this stage to get OEM accounts, so these are the average prices that you would expect from an independent bike shop that's been around for just over 3 years, and I certainly don't appreciate people suggesting that we are massively inflating the 'RRP' prices as you are suggesting. If you check the RRP prices for the Chorus group set and Bullet 80 wheel set check out the Chicken Cycles website yourself and you'll see that they match.

über_grüber, I need to clarify a very important point here. If our bikes were for the fashion conscious people only then we would be using hi-ten steel and the cheapest components China can produce, but that s not our case. So seeing that our frames are made from the same guys that Surly and BLB use (and I would really like to know where you can find a Cromoly 4130 double butted steel frame set for £240), our rims from the same guys that H+Son use (but ours are a lot cheaper) I think you ll appreciate why I appear to be giving a lot less credit to some of the people in the forum than they are due.

Also I just had a play around with the Condor bike builder and the same specced bike with a Mavic Cosmic Carbone SL which is £300 inferior than the Campag Bullet Ultra 80 is going for the same price as ours, so we are still £300 more affordable!

MDCC_ tester, the fact that we offer on our bike builder the option for an entry level Zaffiro tyre doesnt mean that people using some common sense and choosing a good wheel set won't go for some Continental Gatorskin (which are also on our bike builder), so asking me whether I 'have actually done the maths' is irrelevant since I am not the one that does the math but the people that bespoke their bikes.

Mechanical_vandal, you took the time to quote every single components using CRC prices and it works out as £2835.90, add a bit for labour and you get the same price we would charge you for the same bike but on top you'd get full warranty and a free service, so that's still better than buying the bits yourself (which would only work if you already had the tools and knowledge to put the bike together).
Also not sure why you are saying we are buying anything at "full retail"? We have never suggested this, and if we didn't buy at trade where would our profits be?

D-goods, yes like many of the posts on this forum this is another one of those 'have a go at the bike guy' cases, but I actually don't mind it because although it is a shame that some people seem to get so frustrated at the people that are actually working hard for something they are passionate about and are willing to admit when they are wrong and learn from their mistakes, we are still getting some very valuable feedback from this, which can only make ours a better brand on the long run.

RPM, in 3 years we have improved every single component on our bikes, changed our mechanics 3 times, launched 3 new ranges of bikes, grown our business by 300%, and got over 50 resellers of our bikes around Europe, so not really sure why you would say we haven't learned anything.

Kingcutter, if you think you know where we could improve our brand, then we'd love to hear from you. As I said many times before, we are a cooperative business and always listen to what the community has to say on any matter.

christianSpaceman, thank you for being one of the few people realising that we do try to run a genuine business and acknowledge our mistakes, which I don't think it is something that you ll find very common in this industry.

To conclude, 4 years ago we started offering basic bikes which we have improved dramatically over the years after listening and reacting to feedback from customers and discussions like the one on this forum, and it's a shame that some people here still associate us with the first bikes that we built. We have stopped 2 years ago reconditioning vintage bikes like we used to in the very beginning. We have even changed our mechanic three times in order to keep trying to raise our standards. We have always been willing to listen and discuss constructive feedback with everyone in and out of the industry. We have added many top of the range brands like Brooks, Cinelli, Fizik, San Marco, Miche (which I can appreciate not all of you might be too fond of but some people still like them and end of the day it's about giving people choice. But if you do have other options you d like to see on our bike builders let us know!). We understand that in life nobody can please everybody and Foffa Bikes might not be to everyone's liking, but we are just trying to run a genuine business and keep constantly improving our range of products and services, so I hope we can now move on and go out riding our bikes more!

All the best,

dani

WillPalmer. Thanks!

Apollo and Ed Scoble I appreciate that you use real names.

Oliver Schick: Indeed. But Dani F0ffa is the real Dani F0ffa!

Apollo: quite a few people prefer the feeling of a steel frame as opposed to Carbon. At the end of the day it's about giving people a choice to choose what they want to ride.

MDCC Tester, I would be really curious to know which are the inelegant component choices that Foffa is offering. I would have thought that offering all the Shimano, Campagnolo group sets and wheel sets, as well as brands like Brooks, Fizik, San Marco, and Miche would be suitable, but you don't seem to agree.

Edscoble, I am not asking you to take my word for it but at least don't keep slagging genuine businesses off if you don't know the facts.

über_grüber, You have some valid points about pricing and we are not in the position to compete on the buying power of people like Wiggle etc.. who can offer much larger discounts to those that want to buy the parts and do it themselves. The Bullet wheelset trade price from the Campagnolo UK distributor is £713 + VAT and shipping = £870, so our business wouldn't last very long if we were to make a 10% profit on our products. The same applies with the Chorus whose trade price is £614.5 + VAT and shipping = £752.4, so if you find it for an extra £75 then keep supporting online retailers which are the ruin of bike shops. You are probably aware of 'the Rules' and here is Rule 58: (http://www.velominati.com/the-rules/#58)

"Never buy bikes, parts or accessories online. Going into your local shop, asking myriad inane questions, tying up the staff’s time, then going online to buy is akin to sleeping with your best friend’s wife, then having a beer with him after. Online is evil and will be the death of the bike shop. If you do purchase parts online, be prepared to mount and maintain them yourself. If you enter a shop with parts you have bought online and expect them to fit them, be prepared to be told to see your online seller for fitting and warranty help."

You then need to take into account the tools and skills to build the bike and if you have all that already and want to save the cost of paying a shop to do it for you then that is of course always your choice.

Nutsjesmoar, if this list based on the recommended prices from the distributors is making you so angry then I would love to work with you to ensure I can get better prices cause 815 euros for a chorus group set with chain is less than what I pay at trade price! If you know a way to get those prices then come in for a chat and lets see what we can do. In the mean time I will raise these prices with my suppliers and see what they have to say.

So to conclude, everyone is entitled to their opinion but it is not contextualised the fact that some of you keep repeating that there is always a cheaper option out there, because you seem to forget we are a business after all, and provide a service for those that don't have the hours to search for good deals on the internet, neither the knowledge nor the tools to build their bike safely. On top of that we dont do off the peg bikes, we offer a huge number of options which requires us to invest a considerable amount of money on stock compared to some other brands. If you think you can do better than us I suggest you try and run your own brand and then realise all the expenses and hassles that come with it.

We appreciate that some of you have pointed out better rates online and we shall be talking to our suppliers to explain the huge difference in the rates. In the mean time we will continue to listen and respond to your feedback. Much appreciated.

Dani

Dear all,

it looks like this thread is one of the most entertaining of the LFGSS forum for some, however since a lot of people are viewing this and get biased by the users that don't get the full picture, I feel obliged to clarify a few points:

Apollo, you seem to be very surprised to see one of our bikes going for almost £3000, but you have failed to acknowledge the components that went on this bike (image here http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gallery/article/london-bike-show-2013-big-gallery-ii-36243/16)

Here is a breakdown of all the parts that went on there. If you can find a bike with the same parts for less then please let us know:

• Foffa Columbus tubing lugged DB frame RRP £300 (if anybody knows of anybody that offers a Columbus tubing lugged DB frame for that money let us know!)
  
• Tifosi 1" Carbon Road forks RRP £119.99
  
• Miche 1'' headset RRP £19.99
  
• Deda UltraCarbon stem RRP £43.99
  
• Cinelli Vai XL Shadow handlebar RRP £29.99
  
• Deda bar tape RRP 5.99
  
• Campag Chorus groupset RRP £1254.99
  
• Campag Chorus chain RRP £41.99
  
• Miche SuperType seatpost RRP £55.99
  
• Fizik Antares Braided saddle RRP 269.99
  
• standard pedals RRP £19.99
  
• Campag Bullet Ultra 80 wheel set RRP £1317.99
  
• rim tape + inner tubes RRP 5.99 x 2
  
• Vittoria Zaffiro tyres RRP 14.99 x 2
  
  

So the total would be £3522.85 and this doesn't even include labour costs! So I am really curious to hear (using your words) how can we 'infuriate you' so much if all we are trying to do is make high quality custom built bikes affordable?
I appreciate our first bikes were not at the highest standards but that was over 3 years ago, things have changed a lot since and we would appreciate that people started to recognise that rather than keep slagging off genuine and passionate brands on forums.

Howard, the reason why on the bike builder it works out as a bit less is that on our bike builder we haven't yet added the Carbon forks and stem option. The bike was built for the show to show what is possible.

Edscoble, just so you know we do listen to customers and have changed our mechanics after feedback from this forum as well. We let our previous one go after he damaged one of our customers's beautiful Donohue custom builds without letting us (and the customer) know, for which we paid for the full repair and re-paint job of the frame and gave the customer a full service free of charge. The customer is more than happy with the way we dealt with this situation.
Our new chief mechanic has 12 years of experience in the industry, Cytech and weldtech certificates, and was even one of the mechanics for the Team GB Triathlon guys.

Our team always listens to constructive feedback from anyone in the bike community. So if anyone has suggestions that will help us become a better brand, feel free to contact any of us directly rather than hiding behind made up usernames on forums like this one.

All the best,

Dani

To celebrate the 2012 launch of our new range of bikes, we are giving everyone the chance to win the most stunning Foffa single speed Prima you can design using our bike builder app.

For those of you interested check the details on foffabikes.com/competition2012

Good luck!

Dani

I have an old but decent condition HED 3 tubular track 700c carbon disk wheel that hasn't been used in a while, so I much rather give it to someone that will put it to good use.
It comes with a Condor 16t fixed sprocket, the hub still runs super smoothly and I could throw in a spare tyre with it (I think it s a Tufo). Open to reasonable offers but looking around 200 pounds.

I also have a set of basic unmachined white 42mm deep Vs with loose bearings and flip flop hub which I ordered as a sample a while back. Never been ridden and looking at 80 for the set.

Please PM me if interested as I dont have time to check the forum regularly.