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Nice frame, and an old'un too. Looks 1940s to me with that style of lugs, but it could be early 50s or even late 30s - that style was popular for quite a while. Detail work at the tops of the seatstays reminds me a bit of early 50s top-end Holdsworths, but it isn't one.
Instead of Nitromors or sanding, try using a good scraper with a decent blade (I use one by Bahco with a 2-inch replaceable blade). If you're going back to bare metal it's quicker. Also, once you have bought the scraper, you don't have to pay for abrasive paper or paint stripper. It will even do the lugwork with a bit of care.
Anyway, good luck with the sale. Should build up into a great bike.
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cheers for the info guys.the frame isnt actually that heavy
Tru-Wel tube was a fairly light high tensile steel, better than ordinary steel tube but not considered quite as good as 531. There were several versions of Tru-Wel including double butted chrome molybdenum steel. Yours is probably 201, a high tensile tube, but not seamless.
I think this model is similar to yours: http://www.bikebrothers.co.uk/carltonten.htm
Carlton may have been a factory producer but they always made fairly decent stuff.
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It's a Carlton from the 1970s. With those wrapover stays and Crespera lugs it can't be anything else.
Most Carltons of that era were built with TI Truwel tubing but some Carltons were of Reynolds 531 and a small proportion of the high end models were hand built. This one was a factory-built frame - Carlton were making about 2,500 frames a week back in the day.
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beautiful machine, lugwork is very similar to my 1949 Webster of Chesterfield(Derbyshire), very similar layout with reflector/lighting 'eye' on offside rear seatstay.
My machine is here http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bikes/webster-rb.html, the lugs are called the Corinthian pattern after the Greek helmet of the same name, look at the head lugs front on you'll see why!I've seen your 1949 Webster on that site. It's a lovely machine and great to see it in its original finish. I have several of my machines on the Classic Lightweights site and occasionally write contributions, including the pages on Bates of London and on Nervex lugs.
Many lightweight makers used the same proprietory lug castings of course and they would often re-shape the rough castings to produce unique designs as well as to lighten them. There were often similarities between different marques.
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1938 JOHN S BUTLER
**Complete machine with lightweight frame in butted Reynolds 531, fixed gear, pre-war **
£275 ono
This is a very rare machine, thought to be the sole remaining John S Butler. It was built in Wolverhampton by an artisan lightweight cycle maker. There were at least two cycle shops owned by members of the Butler family in Wolverhampton in the 1930s and it is thought that John S Butler had some connection with one of these.
The headbadge transfer has the address 'Graisely Hill, Wolverhampton' along with the JSB initials and the legend 'The Bicycle Expert'. In all likelihood the builder of this frame did not survive the war as no other examples are known to exist.
The features of the frame that indicate that it was built pre-war include the simple but hand-cut lug shaping, the Russ-type D-to-Round section front forks with abrupt offset, the rapid-taper round-section chainstays and the plain design of the topeyes. The frame number on the seat lug is 1391 and there is a second number '38' which probably denotes the year it was made.
This is a very light frame and was almost certainly built from butted 531 tubes; it is one of the lightest frames that I own. The seat pillar is 27.2mm and the frame was built with a 73 degree head angle which gives a lively feel by the standards of the day. The seat tube is a more relaxed 70 or 71 degrees. The materials and design of the frame indicate that it was built as a 'clubmans' sporting machine.
It was refinished a while ago by a V-CC member and he also reproduced the transfers to replicate the originals (the design is stored as a computer file so replacements can be made). The paintwork is not a professional job and it now has a number of marks and chips, mainly on the chainstays, with some on the top tube. It all adds to the patina...
It has been assembled with componentry dating mainly from the 1940s/1950s. The wheels are modern 700C. The frame was built for the old style 26in wheels so the 700C size is close to this size and suits it well.
Of particular note is the wonderful Brooks B17 leather saddle, a pre-1956 oval badge style that has been 'blocked' (reshaped) and 'butchered' (trimmed) in the manner of the period.
The machine has been built with the following components:
GB girder stem and GB Maes bars with blue cotton bar tape.
GB Sport hiduminium front brake with period Universal lever
Brooks oval-logo (pre-56) B17 saddle, blocked and butchered, alloy seatpin.
700C alloy rims with Atom/Pellisier hubs.
Nicklin chainset with Williams 44t ring.
Pre-war type steel pedals (Raleigh RRA?) with toeclips and straps.
The bike is ready to ride. A 70-year old piece of history for £275. Sensible offers considered.
Contact: Martin on 01491 638307 or 07737 146671 (or leave message via this website)
Bike is in South Oxfordshire but could possibly deliver to East London (Bow or Greenwich area) as I will be driving there next week.
I also have a 1954 Claud Butler for sale.
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**1954 Claud Butler Jubilee. **
23in c-t (57cm c-c)Complete bike - £275
This is a 'genuine Claud', built at CB's Clapham works in September 1954 at a time when Claud Butler was one of the most highly regarded lightweight makers. The company was taken over by Holdsworth in 1956 and, sadly, from then onwards CBs were of lesser quality and were badge-engineered Holdsworths.
This is a proper CB and is based on the Jubilee model, named to celebrate 25 years of the CB marque. The Jubilee was fillet-brazed and built of Reynolds 531 and is distinguished by ultra-slim 'pencil' seatstays and fluted topeyes. Chainstays are oval to round, tapered. The workmanship of the smoothly radiused joints of this frame is easy to appreciate. It was built for gears and retains the cable stop on the chainstay and the neat brazed-on cable tube beneath the bottom bracket. It also has cable stops for the rear brake cable. These are slotted to allow easy removal (a CB feature).
It has recently been refinished (by me) in Ivory and it has a crackled effect finish in places. This was not intentional but I felt that it added to the character! Original type transfers fitted.
Built up with the following equipment:
Mavic MA2 rims (700C) with matching Normandy/Maillard large-flange hubs (rear double fixed) and stainless spokes.
Red S chainset (Japanese, superb quality)
Win Pista alloy bars (Japanese) with matching Kusuki 800 stem.
Fluted alloy seatpin with Saracen saddle (sorry, you're not having my Brooks!)
SR pedals with Christophe toeclips and leather straps.
Weinmann brakes and levers.
New red outer cables, new inner cables, new red twill bar tape, new chain.
Gearing is 52x19 (72-inch)
Feels like a true thoroughbred and is ready to ride.Price is £275 ono.
**CONTACT: ****Martin on 01491 638307 or 07737 146671 **(or leave message via this forum).
Bike is in South Oxfordshire but I will be collecting a couple of frames from Mario Vaz in a few days so could possibly deliver to east London (Greenwich or Bow area).
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Okay, forget the commonly held belief that all 531 frames use a 27.2mm seatpin.
Reynolds 531, right from the 1930s, could be specified with different gauge tubes of plain gauge, single butted or double butted, depending on the frame-builder's preference and the size and purpose of the frame. Seat tubes were usually single butted even when the other two main tubes were double butted. Also, it was common practice to ream out the seat tube for a perfect fit because the tubes could distort slightly during the brazing process.
As such you can get 531 frames with seatpin diameters of 26.6, 28.8, 27.0 and 27.2mm. Also, a frame with, say, a 26.8mm seatpin does not imply that it is not as light as one with a 27.2mm seatpin.
Not sure if this clarifies or confuses matters...
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Had this problem on a 1950s Claud Butler. Coca cola didn't work, but a strong solution of caustic soda did the trick. This dissolves the alloy but it won't harm steel (although it will ruin the paint). Had to renew the caustic solution every day and within a week it had dissolved the entire seatpin. Obviously, you have to take great care with caustic and it will only work if you can seal the seat tube at one end or the other. It's a last resort really, but it works if you've got a steel frame. Wouldn't want to try it with an alloy frame though...
If you can get a bike shop to remove the seatpin for around a tenner, that's the best and easiest option.
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I've done a few frames with rattle cans and can offer some solid advice. First, if the original paint is not too bad, leave it on and rub it down with 320 grade wet and dry (used wet). This gives a key for the new paint to adhere to. Fill any scratches and pits.
Next give it at least two coats of primer/filler, preferably white because grey or any other colour will adversely affect the shade of the top coats. Only use grey primer if the end finish is black or a very dark colour. You'll use at least one whole can for frame and forks. Spray only in a warm environment. It also helps if the frame itself is warmed up slightly using a hairdryer.
When the primer is dry, if you've done a good job you can just rub down very gently with 400 grade to de-nib the surface. If there are any runs you'll need to sand these smooth. Leave the frame for a few days before applying the next coat.
Give the frame and forks one coat of gloss, then as soon as it's dry (within anhour, usually) give it another coat. The trick is to apply sufficient paint to give a nice gloss but not so much that it creates runs. I would expect to use one can for this but sometimes you need more, so buy two cans just in case.
Allow at least a day for this to dry. I would apply a coat or two of lacquer to give it that pro look. One can should be enough for this.
So, buy two cans of primer, two of colour, and one of lacquer.
Here's one I did earlier:
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bikes/cb-jubilee-rb.htmlAnd here's another of mine:
http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk/bikes/ernie-clements-rb.htmlHope this helps - and good luck!
Should really say no. I'm selling this 'cos I've got too many bikes already. Might be tempted by something fast and light and with a large frame, although in truth the only bike on my wish-list right now is a Colnago Master Olympic - mine was stolen about a year ago and I still miss it like hell.