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the crash was totally unnecessary and avoidable, I'm more than a bit annoyed being involved in this. was hard getting up this morning with sore hip and neck, but cycling was easier than walking.

There were quite a few dodgy moments and silly moves throughout the evening, and mostly from the lack of experience and skill of some of the riders. It's all good to encourage people to take part, but safety of the riders is more important and they really need to learn the basic skills before taking part and putting others at risk.

I'll do some stats at the end of the season - including points by name ranking. The Tom's might have to pick up their game if they want to catch the Simon's.

my money's on Symon and Bryan coming top 2.

I accept that. And they're out there trying to plough the budget carbon furrow, until carbon ultimately goes the same way as aluminium - ubiquitous, cheaper than steel, some flaws, every cunt's got one.

It's already looking that way. they are probably more popular now than dolans.
And they did make Al track frames and sold for somewhere around 200-300, but was never as popular as their carbon one.

rain stopped now, but looks wet outside.

just started to rain in SE23.

Dear y-s, when you say good mass-start frame, will I not be able to use it for pursuits...as wanted to try these as natural extension of time trialing...? Thanks again for your thoughtful input and patience...all appreciated

I can't say if it works or not, it's more of a problem when you're a vertically challenged like me, at 5'7". Look doesn't list their head tube length for 464, and it looks quite tall from the photos I've seen. if you set your pursuit bars high, it won't be a problem, if you want them low, you might need an adjustable stem. measure the head tube length + spacers of your TT bike, and see if the frame you want has workable head tube length.

I can only speak from experience, and I haven't ridden either of those. Road my new Vigorelli (@Saindsbury's Ed not Mash, sans spoks ;)), and didn't notice anything that I could attribute to a difference in geometry. The one thing I did notice was the bars supplied with it (Cinelli Vai XL) are far too wide, and far too shallow a drop and will be changed toot suite for some Nitto track drops I've been using for the past few years

Vigorellis are built almost like road bike, with short rake fork. I'd imagine it's fairly stable/slow handling(depends how you see it) with trail 65 to 70. It's still a nice bike, but quite a bit different compared to something like koga.
certain geometry doesn't make one bike superior to another, but one might fit a certain rider and their events better than another.

In my experience you don't notice any difference in frame geometry. Over the last 2/3 years I've been riding a 50 year old steel road/path frame, and a modern Bianchi alu/carbon road bike on the track. I notice the differences in the contact points (track drops vs compact bars, saddle more over the bottom bracket etc), rather than the differences in the geometry.

That's a pretty wild claim. are you saying a touring frame or cross frame would ride like a track frame if you get contact points in same place?

Dear y-s, how does the 464 in size small come out on your analysis? I have looked at the Look website and that of Velodrome shop which sells them but can't work out whether passes your test so to speak...size small seems to fit me more than medium which I would have thought appropriate based on 54.5cm top tube on road bike...
Cheers

Sorry, but I can't tell if it's right bike for you or not without knowing you. It looks like it could be a very nice mass start frame. BB drop probably is 50mm like all their other bikes.

I'm no expert, but If they're all made out the same material and confirm to a track style geometry, I dare say there's not going to be a noticable difference.
I wouldn't of thought slight changes in angles/tube lengths would make too much of a measurable difference - if it did track bikes would look even more similar geometry wise than they look now.

Edit - I'll rephrase that "I wouldn't of thought slight changes in angles/tube lengths as allowed by the UCI would make too much of a measurable difference - if it did track bikes would look even more similar geometry wise than they look now." ;)

They might appear similar enough in the middle of the range size, but not so at both end of sizing spectrum. just as an example, most makers just use same fork rake with different head tube angle, and you get trail measurement from 55 to 65. you will notice the difference in handling. same with seat tube angle. if you want to set up small bike with 76 seat angle for endurance event within UCI reg, good luck finding seat post with enough offset.
also if you want to do pursuit, you might want to have a bike with short head tube, which may not be ideal for other events.
another thing that affects handling of the bike is BB drop, and you'd get 65 to 45mm depending on makers.

I dare say that there's hardly any difference between Aluminuim frames, buy the one who's stickers/frame design looks the nicest.

really?
many of them seem to have quite different geometry, specially head/seat angles, and head tube length.
I'd add Fuji, Principia, Ridley and Argon 18 to the list of Al frames.

So that must make me the the one with the highest points (so far) on carbon

There should be prize at the end of the year for the highest points of each frame material type then?

John McC. 11pts in one evening.

Ross Edgar rode a traditional steel frame at last years good friday, and did 11.3s 200m. He'd probably have gone a few 1/10 of a second faster if were he on GB super bike, but that's how much difference frame & fork makes.

hard to tell, but looks like main threads are still fine, only lock ring threads damaged. is this the case?

This looks an interesting event

yeah, it's like bowling, but with bikes...

Is that the best you can do?
that's only 8laps more than 25mile. :b

Great day, Tom and Alex.
nice photos too, specially this one;

I somehow managed to lose a chain ring bolt before the start and missed the first scratch, but stelle saved my day lending me one from her bike.

No carbon or steel in the top 15 at Herne Hill. Draw your own conclusions...

Lies!!
I was 3rd over all last year on a 2nd hand steel frame & fork, and pretty sure I'm in top 15 this year on another steel. I'd say fit is the most important thing, then wheels.

DOV - I noticed the rolled tub on the Anchor, but I assumed that happened as a result of crashing - not as the cause of it (either way that shouldn't happen).

That's Kevin's. someone hit his back wheel pretty hard, hard enough to sear the bulb stem off the tubs and dent the rim. He was telling me that his shamals were the first set in UK...

ffs.
hope everybody is OK.

older vcl guy, not Eric? on the brown/cream bike

It's Eric. hope he recovers quickly.

very well organized meeting, as expected from the rollapaluza.
Mike, stick with the As. you'll improve faster and it's safer too ;)

headset is one of a very few things I get shop to do for me. Assuming your kaga's got a standard 1" aheadset, have you had the headtube faced properly before? you might not need a new headset if the problem is in the head tube and not headset.

It was a bit too cold to enjoy the racing last night. I got stomach ache...
And number of new riders/novices made things rather interesting. Hare & Hounds and warm-up scratch especially was a bit hairy.
I'm not quite getting how the league points work out this year with mixing up categories.

so the 1st one's on 1st of May, and not 8th as on BC calender?

That's Charlie. He used to be a courier, and this is how he trains now...
YouTube- Dekochari in the year 2020

Oh, there was also a girl who finished the 20K and won the first B :-)