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VB - Couldn't it just be a matter of, say, every 3 months a quick post to show how big the honey pot is?

~Rather than everyone simply saying how amazing VB is why don't we actually volunteer to fucking help?

If I could do web shite, I'd take some of the load. (on my face).

But if people are not willing to pay for this forum, potentially, then clearly they do not value it.

And if they object on principle, they're simply niave about the time/costs involved in running it, and should be taken outside and shot.

Hehe, its NOT like i dont trust him. :)

Polybikeuser - its that I don't trust him, its just that I do not like the logical inconsistency of not knowing what the forum is/wants to be that is the problem and I am just being honest that for me personally, I would not donate if money was being made, alerting Velo and anyone else that there may be others like me.

But as I said, if I am paying for something, and it is obligatory, then fine, I'll pay - but hence I am using the term pay not donate...

It's not exclusive.

Read and re-read.

You would not have to pay, just to use the site.

I meant join as in get all listed benefits.

Already a member of the latter. :)

And just be clear, I said yes, on the vote - as I am happy to pay for the services here on offer. In that case, transparency isnt necesary because the contract is one that I decide before I join the fourm and I know all the facts: If I want to join, I pay x.

That isnt the same if I decide of my own free will to donate.

The very fact that there is disagreement here on the amount, the way in which it is collected and whether it should exist at all, proves that transparency is necesssary.

I don't mean to be offensive and I am sorry if it came across that way - but for people to make a free and informed decision to donate or not, such information is necessary, otherwise they are being decieved, despite, I am sure, the general benevolence of the forum head.

Let us not also forget that while this community would not exist without the forum heads work, it would also not exist without the community that lives within in it. And every useful post that every one of us writes, uses both time and intellectual knowhow just as the forum head does when he creates and administers it.

If people want to be selfish cunts, let them be, everyone else on here can rise above it and I'm pretty sure they will. The options are twofold:

1. Transparency: Simply have a bar that shows how near the red the forum is

2. Turn this into a commercial enterprise: This will happen the moment you personally profit £1.

I can't see how there is any middle ground between these two positions.

If you'd like to turn this into some sort of commercial enterprise, then I admire you for it and as I said, it would no doubt be very sucessful and it would be a brilliant idea - but you've got to tell people that! Making this a commercial enterprise with real cash behind it could do all sorts of things, like the forum shop too for example. I don't want to be patronisiing because I know very little about you or the forum, but perhaps you should be personally clearer on what the long term vision is and simply create the strcuture which allows that to happen?

Sorry mate all gone!

This thread should be made a sticky- in classifieds it gets pushed down too fast so people keep missing it.

Inner tubes is the single easiest and quickest forum related purchase to do that benefits everyone.

Do you expect all of the time, effort, skill and experience I put in this to be free, forever and always for you to use and profit from?

I know what you are saying - and I'm not passing judgement on it.

All I think you do owe is transparency, when people can make the decision for themselves.

It would be wrong for people to donate BECAUSE they thought you were in debt or needed it, and that you actually weren't and were making money from it.

I don't think thats unreasonable.

To be honest, at this stage I have no clear goals. I just want to build up a list of cycling charities.

In fact, GA2G might be interested in this too.

I just want to read and learn about what there is in the UK and potentially how to get involved. :)

Wow - as a result of my recommendation?

Let us know how you get on.

Thanks for everything earlier guys. Just to confirm 14.50 has been donated. No doubt David will confirm this.

I completely agree with a fee - however, it should be totally transparent. If you start to make a profit then you should say so. Truthfully, I would rather not give money to a forum if it is flush or to you personally when there are so many great charities out there.

As for where the revenue would come from - I think classifieds is a bad idea.

The effect of putting a fee on there would most likely be a reduction in items availible.
The effect of putting a fee on the forum would result in less members but most not willing to pay would be time wasters anyway, so that is where the cash should come from, in my view.

Also, another idea today as a result of my inner tube bulk buy was to do the same thing, repeatedly. I pay 1.71 for them, buyers got them for 2 quid each, each tube had a 29p donation to the forum. So my little bit of effort made 14.50 for the forum.

Unlike the other options, this sort of approach has no down sides and is a win-win, since we get cheap stuff too.

In my view LFGSS has the potential to overshadow any shop in London. I have seen other businesses make millions out of growing shops around forums - because they're an instantly loyal cystomer base. This and product reviews would be my personal vision. And I am willing to help.

I'm running about 10 mins late, will be there from 1.40 roughly.

Right, so this is what I am expecting:

Furtwangler 6 - N/A
Buzz Lightyear 4 - CONFIRMED
Super Tony 5 - CONFIRMED
George Sportif 5 - CONFIRMED
50/14 4 - CONFIRMED
Soul 4 - CONFIRMED
Buddha Fingaz 4 - CONFIRMED
kboy 4 - CONFIRMED
Stallion 4 - CONFIRMED
Broker - 10 CONFIRMED

50 total

This makes fifty! Make sure you bring the exact money is you can because I have no change!

MC NEB has not got back to me, nor has addie, so broker you can have the other six.

Spike sorry I am not availible after work tonight.

Buzz still don't have a phone, sorry! But you will see me as I have a giant backpack on.

I have ten of these left guys - Buddah and MC Nebula have not gotten back to me.

Spike/Addie - are you around tomorrow?

Buddah/MC - If you want these please get back to me ASAP since the moment Spike or Addie come back to me they are theirs.

Anyone got any views on Sustrans?

And can anyone recommend other charities?

I am thinking of doing some fundraising and need some suggestions.

Thanks

Because Kant was a brilliant thinker and, to a degree, he started it all: The brilliance of the enlightenment.

And I did not want to do Hegel, because he is a Kant. :)

Not been to Croydon but its near me so I will give it a look.

Scherrit mentioned you actually Hippy.

Something along the lines of silly aussie twat? :)

I would be up for the whole lot sometime.

I did my first 35 miles ride on the weekend the longest I've been, and it was satisfying. My commute is far too short for decent exercise!

This suggestion will sound academic, but since I've learned about existentialism as a philosophical idea I'ver never been happier. As an atheist, its a compelling argument.

Nothing can avoid the inherent loneliness of life and ultimately, of death.

There is no inherent meaning in anything and it is up to you to create it. Material possesions, relationships cannot do it. All the freedom you want is in your mind; what is in your mind is literally all that you have.

Become comfortable with it. Don't fight it. Accept the pain. In time the acceptance will make the pain disapear, then you can begin on creating meaning and satisfaction in your life.

I hope it gets better. I would strongly urge therapy, not just for you but for all of us. It once helped me considerably in the past, albeit in different circumstances to you (v bad car crash).

I love Dwight's and Dylan's - please lets get these printed!

Hi Everyone,

I've lost my mobile and I might not have a new one on Wednesday so remember, I will be at the South Side of the Gardens!

Spike/Addie - I wil get back to you as soon as I can. Some members have not got back to me yet, but I will PM them and if I hear nothing will give you a PM.

Cheers