Search results for:

Are we not missing the point here?

If time trialling were just another from of retail therapy I, for one, would not be interested in it.

Consider:

-It’s really the only form of cycle-sport on the road where single gear bikes can be competitive.

-There is the possibility of making the owners of the bikes shown above look silly.

-You can take part at any level of ability or kit and it’s still possible to feel you’ve done a good ride – even (under certain circumstances) if you came last.

This is what the CTT handbook tells us about the H36/18 course: ‘Charlbury- B4026-Spelsby-Shipton-Charlbury. HQ Charlbury’. It’s about 10 miles beyond Oxford.

I haven’t ridden the event before and I believe this year is only the second time it’s been held. I picked it because it was recommended to me and because I thought it would be a good early season try out. It is not suitable for some one looking for a fast course where they can ride out to the start!

The Marlow 25 course (H25/2) is often referred to as ‘The Ski Slope’ because it has a massive ‘gift’ hill at the start (‘gift’ because you don’t have to go back up it to get to the finish). Good times have been done there, but it’s not really suitable for fixed because gears are necessary to take full advantage of that first descent.

Much of the course is on the A 4 road which ‘Cycling’ (Cycling Weekly’s original title) used to refer to as “the hallowed tarmac of the Bath Road”, because it was regarded by many as the premier TT road.

Although it’s possible to manage without the CTT handbook by using the website I do feel it’s much easier to plan a season with the book in front of you. It can be brought from the CTT site – go to ‘Shop’.

Hasn’t anyone else planned their season yet?

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

I suggest this thread might be used in a similar way to the Cyclo Sportive thread to enable members to co-ordinate their efforts.

I don't expect anyone else to be particularly interested in what I'm doing, but I offer my early season list as an example.
Because of my extreme old age I am only riding time trials, but I believe it's better for younger competitors to mix their racing. Road & Track are good preparation for TT's, and it's even possible the reverse works too!

Here's my list.

5th April
Wychwood RC. 36 miles. Course H36/18. Early season try out, not to be taken too seriously.

10th April
Hounslow Good Friday Club 25. Course HCC 001 (West of Windsor) Deadly earnest, this one!

19th April
Beds RCC 25 Course F1. My favourite course, fast and suitable for fixed (on the right day). The course is almost entirely on the A1, using the road from Baldock northwards. There are different versions but the majority of events have their HQ at Tempsford, just north of Sandy, Bedfordshire. This event has a Medium Gear section, so perhaps they're hoping for entries from lfgss members.

26th April
Bath Road Hilly. 31 miles. Course H31/7. I'm not fully committed to this one yet. Nice scenery, if you've time to look. You'd have to be brave to try this one fixed.

May 3rd.
Icknield 25. Course F1. See above. I'm still hoping for that perfect 'float' morning.

May 10th.
Charlotteville 50. Course H50/8.A31 road, Farnham-Alton. Since I'm aiming at the Hounslow 100, which is on the same course, this is an essential dry run. Although the course is not flat, good results have been obtained here on fixed.

May 16th.
Hounslow 10. Course H10/8. Must support my own club's open event. May help rather than ride.
May 17th
Norlond 50. F1. Need I say more?

31st May
Hounslow 100. Course H100/8. Focal point of season.

The rider is R.G. Thompson of the Archer R.C., riding the West London CA 25 on 20th September 1942. I have the result sheet in front of me, but unfortunately I cannot upload it. Thompson's time was 1.6.36, which gave him 6th place out of 57 finishers (there were 104 entries). The winner was Arthur Overton of the Kingston RCC in 1.3.58.
The times may seem slow by modern standards, and if I had to pick one factor which slowed these ancient racing men it would be the 'inconspicuous' clothing then demanded by the RTTC. That jacket alone must have added a few minutes to his time compared with a modern skin suit.

I have posted this as a new thread because I thought it interesting and unusual to have a picture and a result sheet to go with it.
I know nothing else about Mr. Thompson.

It appears that there was a lively racing scene at this time, a fact not often mentioned in all the enormous media coverage of the war.

I'm hoping to be able to scan a small archive of photos like this. Please let me know if they would be of interest.

Here is an example of the sort of TT bike I've been talking about earlier in this thread
Based on a '70's 531 road frame about 2" smaller than I used to consider my correct size. My back is flat when holding the clip on bars. I think all the equipment, except the rims, spokes and the clip ons came from cycle jumbles.

I would say that the geometry of this frame is a bit shallower that a typical track frame, and I believe this is an advantage for TT use. I find the most difficult part of riding TT's on fixed is descending, especially with a tail wind, when it's necessary to be doing at least 35 mph. Anything that makes for stability must be an advantage.

I can't claim to have done any fantastic times on this machine, but that's me, not the bike. My results have been as good as I could reasonably have hoped for, and actually better than I've managed on gears recently.

[quote=The Seldom Killer;530049]When does it start becoming worth investing in aero kit?/quote]

This is up to the individual to decide; it's not a matter of cast iron fact.

I suggest the main cost of aero kit may be in embarrassment rather than money.
Just consider the nightmare situation where after the finish of a 25 which you have ridden on the drugged machine posted by Hippy, wearing a pointy hat, you find that you have just scraped inside 1 hour 15 minutes (20mph), but your club mates, on old fixed wheel bikes have all done personals under the hour.

Perhaps you are beginning to see the attraction of the antique steel frame with clip on bars as the only concession to modernity. One tip: conventional wheels with fewer spokes than normal (try to find oval spokes) give an advantage without being too obvious !

Sunday 22nd Feb. Another February Morning.

I’ve just watched, mostly from behind, one of the most impressive displays of fixed wheel riding I’ve ever seen. Normally I wouldn’t trouble you with an account of a mundane training run, but I think the fixed aspect here makes this one worth recording.
The rider in question is my clubmate P.H., one of my companions from the Petersfield ride (see ‘A Hard Day in January’). The two pictures with this post are from that occasion, but the bike and rider looked just the same on this ride – in the photo of the group on the road P.H. is the rider at the front right hand wearing sunglasses, in the static picture note the front tyre.

We set off from Staines Bridge with ten riders: nine on good quality, mostly state of the art road bikes and one on a very basic fixed machine. Although P.H.’s bike is based on a well made 531 frame there is nothing special about it. The wheels have fairly heavy rims and very heavy ‘tractor’ tyres, gearing is 42 x 17, about 65.5 inches.

Our route was Staines, Gerrards X, Beaconsfield, Hazlemere, Askett, B4009 back to the A40, Stokenchurch, Marlow, Cookham, Staines (total distance 73 miles). For those who don’t know the area, it is hilly. The average speed, according to our computers, was 18mph, although the true average must have slightly less since we did have a brief pee stop.

What impressed me was not just that P.H. could stay in the group on that bike, but that he was the one making the pace, doing about three quarters of the distance at the front. On the climb up to Stokenchurch (nearly two miles in length, the major difficulty of the day) he was first to the summit. We had a tailwind home from there and according to my speedo we were mostly doing 22mph on the flat. Easy enough following a wheel and using a biggish gear of your choice; completely different at the front on a 65 inch gear.

The moral seems to me to be: the bike makes very little difference; it’s the rider that counts. This is something one reads all too rarely in the conventional cycling media but sees over and over again on the road.

I expect these rides to continue until the end of March. Our open Road Race is on the 29th, and I would expect most people will be racing on Sundays after this. Forum members are invited to try these runs and I suggest anyone wishing to come should contact me beforehand.

If I was to use clip-ons, I'd use the beaut ahead system to slam my bars and then fiddle with the saddle.
All this messing about with my road bike setup means the reality is: 1. I'm not going to touch my road bike. 2. I may build a TT specific bike at some point.

Quite right.

Conventional road bikes are not really suitable for time trials. This might be a problem if we weren't keen on fixed wheel bikes, which are a cheap way of being highly competitive (Boardman, O'Bree and others).

To respond to some of the comments here

Combine events.
I checked with my expert on this.
These are strictly speaking club events where a number of clubs have joined together to aid organisation. Presumably the organiser could be asked to allow an entry as a private time trial just as in any club event.
If you really want to ride a particular club's events you might consider joining that club as a second claim member - that is second to the club in whose colours you normally race. This is usually fairly cheap and doesn't involve any real commitment. Some might say it's like having a bit on the side, but in fact it doesn't involve the same problems. The same tactic can be used for association events.

The Old Chestnut.
I did say a rising wind back from the turn.
It's very common that around dawn there's a flat calm but as the sun starts to warm things up the wind gets going, and this is the time of day when a lot of time trials take place. Usually sod's law causes this to work against you, but there will be exceptions; naturally, I believe the exceptions always benefit my rivals.

My posts may seem to contain a lot of words, but each one has its purpose.

Buying Speed.
I don't think there's any doubt that tribars are far and away the most cost effective way of buying speed. However my experience is that just bolting them onto your existing set up doesn't work. A smaller frame than normal is needed to reduce the height of the bars - you're not going to be holding the bottom of the drops, you're going to be resting your forearms above the bars. It's necessary to get your back as near as possible parallel with the road. This is about reducing frontal area.
So all you need is an old frame with a short head tube and a reasonably long slot in the rear fork ends (i.e. not vertical drop outs) and you've got the basis for a fixed TT bike which will have the potential, on a reasonably still day, to make the owners of expensive carbon exotica look sick.

A float day is when conditions are at their best for fast times.

You ride back from the finish to the HQ with a huge grin because you know from your own stop watch you've taken a minute off your p.b., but when the times are put up you discover someone's taken two minutes off comp record. Then the thunderstorm starts.
Yes, we think it's mostly to do with low air pressure, but there may well be other factors. Humidity? Temperature? The old chestnut of the rising wind that pushes you back from the turn. I find evenings suit me better than early mornings

Aero Kit:
Clip on 'tri' bars are said to be worth 6 seconds a mile (but not if you're only doing 20 mph in the first place). I think this may be true because in recent years when I've tried to ride a TT using the old position I've been hopelessly slow. Aero helmets: another 3 secs per mile, so they say.
Apply just these two items to any half reasonable fixed wheel bike and you should go faster than you would on a £5000 road bike without them.

The CTT handbook is indispensable to anyone intending to have a season's time trialling. It only covers open events though, for club events (which can usually be entered on the line) you need a local handbook.

How about another one rider for the Antelope 3 Up?

We did 1:20 last year. Winners did 1:06. It was hard work but fun in a sick TTing kinda way[/quote]

If more time trials had reports as good as Hippy's, the sport's popularity would be transformed.

Yay, TT season is nearly on us.

I would offer to be part of a three up team but my best time so far is 23 miles (37k) over 1.04.09 so i doubt I would be much use to anyone unless I start training now. However, I am pretty handy at drafting.

This seems a pretty respectable time to me.

Because:

1. If someone's best performance is over 23 miles this implies that the rider has not ridden many standard distance time trials and so is almost certain to improve rapidly with experience. If you are impressed by some old time triallist (possibly me) telling what his p.b. is for a 25, don't forget he has ridden dozens, maybe hundreds of events to achieve that personal. His best will have probably been done on a fast course (eg the E72 mentioned elsewhere in this thread), and on a 'float' day (eg just before a thunderstorm).
   
2. A 23 mile course is almost certainly not on a fast main road - it's probably on twisty, undulating lanes. This speed is roughly two and a half minutes a mile, so we're talking about a 25 inside 1h 10 minutes, on a tough course, on fixed.
   
   

Seldom Killer, you're too modest.

This is a big subject, just a few points for now.

1. Don't rely on shotblasters being gentle with your frame, or knowledgeable about the requirements of different types of tubing.

2. Masking. Best to mask anything fragile e.g. all threads, and the bottom of the steering tube where it joins the fork crown. Any wear at this point may cause the bottom ring of the headset to be a loose fit, which will cause juddering under braking.
   Chrome usually comes off only partially under blasting. The result is a mess - best to mask.
   Some blasters will pickle the work in a degreaser before blasting, ask about this, because it will remove your masking. Also, if any part of the frame is glued, as I seem to remember some Cannondale fork blades were, it should not go in the degreaser at all.
   Duct Tape is a good medium for masking, but it must be removed before painting because the adhesive melts in the oven.

3. Tubing. I'm some way out of date on this, but Renolds did not approve of shot blasting 753 tubing(bead blasting is ok), and I expect the same applies to 853 & 653. However 531 is ok, but remember you lose about half an ounce of material at each blasting. Cannondale recommended bead blasting, and I guess this would apply to any ali frame. Bead is lighter and finer than chilled iron shot, but much, much slower to use. Expect expense with this.

Personally, nowadays, I like the patina achieved just by wiping the frame with an oily rag.

Wise men learn from the experience of others, it is said.

I have twice had a chain come off and jam while descending. The first time when I was very young and ultra light but riding a very heavy frame which survived without bending, the second, when I really should have known better, in the middle of a club run group going down the hill from Remenham towards Henley. Wonderful to relate, we all stayed upright. However the damage to the frame was just as described above, but luckily the late and much regretted Dave Russell was still around and he had no difficulty repairing it.
There is no question in my mind that both incidents were caused by allowing the chain to become slack.

I admit to being a fool who has had to learn from his own experience, but I have learned the lesson well, and now I always check the chain tension before taking any fixed bike anywhere near a hill.
Two points to note:

1. A new chain takes a few miles to bed in. Recheck tension frequently (first 10 miles) until it stabilises.
   
2. Allow for tight spots. Most sprockets are not perfectly round, so it is necessary to find the tightest point and set the tension there.
   

I could be interested in the Antelope 3 Up mentioned above.

Composite lgfss team on fixed ?

This would be strictly on the basis of 'a bit of fun' rather than training for the national championship.

To give some idea of my capabilities: my last two seasons have been very patchy, best ride in '08 was 2.13.30 in the Charloteville 50. In '06 I did a 1.2.28 25 on P881 and 4.41.09 in the Hounslow 100 (Ithink all these rides were done fixed). I've ridden a lot of TTT's in the past, although none on fixed. Obviously my career is not on the upward side of the curve; don't worry about me being too fast for you, it's more likely to be the other way about.

I do have transport,although three riders and bikes would be a squeeze, but a little determination would overcome this.

If you're satisfied with the finish you get with lacquer only, all well and good.

If you are doing it yourself, first try some lacquer where it won't show too much(eg underneath). It will probably look ok when wet, but once the solvent has evaporated I suspect it will look 'dry'.

At this stage you might consider painting the frame silver, then lacquering. Silver paint is pigmented with aluminium powder, so naturally it tends to look like ali, but if you want to make it look like steel you can add a little black (make sure the paints are compatable). By using this technique you can first give the frame some sort of anti rust treatment - preferably phosphoric acid straight onto the steel, which won't be visible after painting.

Of course all this would be best done with stoving materials, but I don't see why it couldn't be done with airdrying paint. If using two pack polyurathene paint, bear in mind the catalyst is based on cyanide and is not a health product !

I had the misfortune to be in the stove enamelling trade for 27 years.

We were often asked to lacquer straight onto steel but in the end we refused to do this because the customers always came back complaining of rust. This was using wet stoving lacquer, not powder, which might be better, but I wouldn't be too hopeful about this. I always regarded powder as a 'puddingy' industrial finish, which also had the problem that it would sometimes fall off the coated job in some places while whatever coating was left stayed in place almost whatever was done to it. You can't blast it, because it just gets warm which makes it soft and resistant to the shot.
I've been out of this game for 10 years now, so it's possible powder might have improved. I will be happy if I never see the inside of a paint shop again, but I do know how to stove bike frames & I would be happy to pass my knowledge on, but I'm not going to describe the process here. If some one's interested, let me know.

Just a final note on polishing. If you want to polish something don't on any account blast it, especially not with a hard medium like chilled iron which is normally used for removing paint and rust. It will be next to impossible to polish out the abraded effect of the blasting. If you've gone to all the trouble of polishing a steel frame, you're most of the way to chroming it, so I'd be looking for electroplaters.

I think I can see what I was doing wrong, here it is.

Just a footnote. I thought the original diary entry might be of interest. To translate my horrible childish hand:

Made it to Petersfield. There was almost a snowstorm just before Petersfield. Got dreadful bonk before 3 Frogs.

By 'bonk' I mean exhaustion. The Three Frogs was a cafe just south of Ripley on the old A3, used as a tea stop on the way home.

The Jpeg with the photo of the diary won't load at the moment - I'll try later

I'm not clear why track ends are seen as desirable.

Obviously vertical drop outs which give no chain adjustment are no good without a derailleur, but ordinary foward opening road ends which were fitted to the vast majority of steel frames until fairly recently are fine to use with single speed - fixed or free.
This type of end was invented for use with single gear and was seen as an advance over 'roadster' rear ends which were the same shape as track ends but normally used with chain adjusters. The benefits of the forward opening ends were (and still are):

1. Easy rear wheel removal. The chain drops out on the wheel and can be left on the front sprocket, also, if there is a back mudguard it can be left in place.
   
2. If a double sided hub is used and the wheel is turned to use a different size sprocket so the wheel is in a different position in the slot, the sloping angle of the ends will cause the rim to remain in line with the rear brake blocks - this is not the case with track ends which are normally mounted horizontally. Just think of those pre-war Tour riders turning their wheels at the top and bottom of mountains!
   
   

Rotrax's price may well include a respray - personally, I've given up worrying about paint on frames for everday use and if I had to do a repair of this type I'd just wire brush the joint and give it a couple of coats of red oxide.

Just a final note on d.i.y. frame repairs. Silver solder is much easier to use than brass and nearly as strong - possibly stronger, because there's no risk of overheating the steel tubing. The extra cost of the silver is significant in the cost of a whole frame, but not when making a repair of this type.

First, a correction: The Ballon gradient is not 15%, but 1 in 15, more like 7% - as you may have noticed I am far from fully metricated.(now corrected)

I don't think there's any problem with sustained climbing on fixed. My impression is that on gears one always seems to need a slightly lower gear than would be necessary on fixed. Of course this may be pure prejudice on my part.
A couple of years before the Ballon trip I rode up the Col D'Aspin ( about 1400 metres ) and the Tourmalet (2100m. approx.)on gears using a 32T inner ring and a 23T bottom sprocket. On the Aspin I don't think I went below the 19 and everything seemed fairly easy, although pretty slow. The Tourmalet proved a completely different proposition - perhaps the first climb had taken more out of me than I realised. About a third of the way up I was firmly on the 23, and by La Mongie (three quarters of the way) I was having serious doubts about whether I was going to make it at all. Altogether I'd probably done 25 miles, but it felt nearer 100. I don't know if I could get up these climbs on my 43 x 22 - I'd certainly like to try.

Why would anyone want to do this? If motorcycling is mainly about going round corners, cycling is mostly about climbing - driving a car is more about trying to keep awake.

I rode up the Ballon D'Alsace on fixed - September 2007.

This is not on the same scale as the Alpe D'Huez or the Tourmalet, the highest point on the road being 1178 metres (although this sounds better if you call it 3800 feet). However it has often been featured in the tour, and Henri Desgrange is said to have claimed that it was unrideable - he was quickly proved wrong though.

I used a 43t chain ring with sprockets of 18t freewheel(63.5"), to get to the start of the climb and then turned the wheel to use a 22t fixed (51.8") on the ascent itself, which I think is mostly about 7%. The road is now so well engineered and surfaced that this gear (only selected on the basis of availabilty of sprockets) proved just about right. Ithought I'd done reasonably well to average 10mph on the climb, until I discovered that Henri Pottier had averaged 12 mph in 1906!

I have an article on this ride written for my club magazine which I could email to anyone interested.

No planning has gone into this one, but this Sunday's (1st February) Hounslow training run should have two riders on fixed. Forum readers are invited.

Meeting place is Staines Bridge, on the side of the river away from the town,opposite Sainsbury's, leave 9.15 sharp.

Expect to do 60 -70 miles in 4- 4 and a half hours. No cafe stop, you will need to bring energy drink & food. A map can be useful in case you get separated from the group. There will be hills - personally, I find descending at speed with only one brake to be stressful, although I'm not saying it can't be done.

I can't state a destination, tne idea is to set off into the wind, if possible, so that we don't over reach ourselves.

I know this is short notice, and that the Ashdown ride is the same day. If there is interest I will try to organise another Sunday ride in the near future. I have written an article about this type of riding which I will send to anyone interested - pm your email to me.

Ride Report.

First, who was there. I will stick to the convention of keeping to forum user names - my senior club mate has just adopted Old Git, the other I'll refer to as P.H.
As I said originally, I intended to invite two forum members to make up a group of six with three clubmates and myself. On the morning one of the forum invitees failed to get up and therefore shall remain nameless. One of my clubmates had also pulled out so that left us with four riders, which made an efficient and manageable little group.

The Ride.

Apart from a cold start and a little ice on the back roads before the Hog's Back we had a near perfect day, with a rising south west wind to help us home. By mid day the sun was actually making us feel warm - in my case hot, because I was wearing too many layers. I think this made at least a small contribution to the bad patch I suffered in the afternoon between Liphook and Seale. In his report Illy very tactfully refrains from mentioning that I did not manage to keep in the tight bunch over the whole distance.
To be realistic this period of weakness was only to be expected; my two clubmates are, unlike me, both classy riders with impressive palmares. P.H. will almost certainly have some victories to add to his tally this season, and I expect the Old Git will get results in the Vets category. Illy is obviously on the upward curve of his racing career; he rode strongly all day and although he said he was tired at the end I can't say it was noticeable. I expect to see his name high up on result lists soon. I must admit being a bit miffed that, using exactly the same gear as myself, Old Git, who is half a decade my senior and says he has not ridden fixed on the road for half a century, could drop me going downhill as well as up.
Just a couple of points from the other posts above. Hippy, yes we had a car with us. Having a photographer was essential if there is to be any hope of media interest in this story, and no one could have done the photography from a bike. Illy, in his report, uses the phrase "at their age" implying the Hounslow riders were all of a similar age, so just to put the record straight, although Old Git and I are both over sixty, P.H. at forty four is a generation younger.
The route was not just longer than in 1959, but also harder because the section from the Hog's Back to Hindhead was on hilly lanes which were tougher than the now unuseable A3. On the other hand the weather was better, and whereas on the first trip we rode in complete darkness from Guildford, this time the daylight just about lasted to P.H.'s house at Egham.

Now to think about that Hard Day in February.

Last two pictures for now.

1. The old A 3 from Liphook to Petersfield is now by passed by the new road and is (sometimes) empty.
   
2. Clubman takes shelter.