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this and that, what i was trying to say that taking it to its logical conclusion it is generally really destructive and bad, and i think that banking could be the perfect example for the destructiveness of it.

however it seems to work for everyone doesn't it so lets just leave it at that...

Ok... I assume that free markets and efficient economies are good things.

What economic system would you propose to achieve those things, aside from capitalism?

bankers giving to charity is about as hypocritical as shooting someone so you can patch them up again.

They get criticized for not giving money. And when they do, people say it's not good enough.

FFS, what more do you want from them?

Again... the current state of affairs is the aggregate of a lot of mistakes made by a lot of people. The actions of thousands and thousands of people came together to put us in the mess we're in, NOT JUST THE BANKERS.

Why isn't anybody bashing the idiots who decided it'd be a good idea to buy a house they can't afford? Because it's easier to villainize the rich, and sympathize with the poor. What the hell ever happened to good ol' common sense?

Bless them. They still donate (in relation to take home income) less than the average man or woman on the clapham omnibus. And corporate giving is still a neat tax option.

They get a few dozen people each year asking for sponsorship. How much money have you donated to charity recently?

And just because a donation is a neat tax option to the corporation, doesn't mean the money is worth any less to the charity receiving it.

It is the taxpayers money that the government is using to bail out these institutions. Just like its the investors (e.g. bank customers)money that is funding the bail out fund that has just been set up by a conglomerate of 10 or so global financial institutions.

Granted, without bailing certain institutions out (freddie mac, fannie mae, and that first one i cant quite recall the name of) the global economy would be much worse off than it currently is due to these institutions being so entrenched in the financial market.

The first one was Bear Sterns.

If it's any consolation, the Fed refused to bail Lehman out. The markets are in turmoil because of it, but I support the decision, hopefully it'll scare everybody into behaving.

I think people would have a modicum of sympathy for bankers if they shared the wealth in the good times. But they don't. Instead they pay themselves obscene bonuses for lucky guesses on bets with other peoples money.

Fuck 'em.

They do share the wealth. Most of the big investment banks have donation-matching programs, where the company will match the charity donations made by any of their employees, up to a certain amount per year. At my last company, it was £3000... if I'd donated £3000 to charity, that company would've matched it.

Because of that, I was able to raise £6000 in sponsorship for a London to Barcelona cycle ride, the money went to a children's medical research charity. Loads of people donated £20-50, and a good number of people put in £100-£300. And I'm not the only person who goes around collecting sponsorship for this sort of thing either.

they always take a hard right-wing 'fuck everyone else' attitutde to everything.

Perhaps because everybody's always telling them what bastards they are...

there is a massive difference between wanting to provide for your kin and and a lifestyle fueled by greed and wanton disregard for the financial situations of others.

i could understand their high salaries if they were good at their job but it's obvious that greed masks their ability to look at what the last 300 years of world financial history can teach them.

no sympathy from me, they are reaping what they sowed with rampant speculation (much like the tulip boom of the 1630's)

People keep harping on about "wanton disregard for the financial situations of others". I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious, in what way is this wanton disregard expressed?

What do you care if they're paid high salaries or not? It's not coming out of your pocket, it's coming out of the company's profits.

Being a banker is not the only way to afford all the things you list.

I think banker-bashing is unnecessary, but can't help my natural reaction, which is to not feel too sorry for people who have chosen a career with their eyes wide open.
My company makes financial software, and the downturn will affect us too. We have just had 30% redundancies in the UK, coupled with 100% growth in Asia. It is sad for those people.. families.. affected.
Mrsmith has made some very harsh comments in this thread, but there are nuggets of truth in there too.. :-)
Don't live in debt. Don't be blinkered by promises of a stable career, respectable profession, etc.. Don't be a cunt.

I agree with most of things you said.

I'm not shedding any tears for the bankers who've lost their jobs. I'm sympathetic to some extent, but anyone working in finance should know that it's entirely man-made, highly volatile, and at the mercy of market perceptions, however incorrect. I may be out of a job soon, but I'm not shedding any tears for myself either... I could've become a doctor, but I made a conscious decision not to. If I lose my job, I'll just have to dust myself off and figure out something else to do. It won't be easy, because there will be thousands and thousands of other people just like me. But hey, that's life.

Believe me, if I could get out of having a bank account I would.

Do you have any bank accounts that earn interest? I'm sure you could find a current account that earns zero interest, and then you can sleep soundly at night, knowing you're not helping to finance the education of those greedy fat-cat bastards' children.

I'm sick of hearing people bashing investment bankers for being greedy, selfish, blah blah blah, whatever.

For the record, I've worked in finance my entire career, but I'm a computer programmer, so while I earn a comfortable living, it's by no means lavish. I'm well aware that I may be out of a job soon. My boyfriend is an equity derivatives trader at a large investment bank. He may be out of a job soon as well. Who knows what the markets will do.

The credit crunch and the current state of the financial industry is the aggregate of a lot of mistakes made by a lot of people. It's the fault of the mortgage lenders who decided to lend stupid amounts of money to people who couldn't afford it. It's the fault of the people who were too dumb to see that the house they were buying was beyond their earning capabilities. It's the fault of the bankers who didn't realize how risky it was to buy those debts, or saw the risk but were too greedy to care.

People are quick to condemn greedy bankers and seem to think they're responsible for the world's financial and social woes at the moment. But how do you know that the boom time we've all been enjoying the past decade or two aren't the result of those bankers as well? If their greed has the power to royally fuck everything up, then it stands to reason that it has the power to make everything all bright and shiny as well.

The fact of the matter is, most people would love to have the amount of money some -- NOT ALL -- bankers do. Most people would love to have a good house, and send their kids to the best schools, have the latest electronic gadgets, drive nice cars, go to nice restaurants, etc.

How can you fault somebody for wanting to make a good living and provide for their families? If a well-paying job is available, and is perfectly legal, and well-respected by some, how can you fault somebody for taking it?

You've been married all this time??? I feel cheated.

they're all standing at windows in Canary Wharf preparing to leap?

Goddammit. If they're going to commit suicide anyway, they might as well marry me!!! What a waste of a perfectly good UK citizenship.

ok, mystery solved re: snowy - now why did everyone else hold off for over six minutes...

Maybe nobody else is quite as desperate as you...

Jimjams darlin', Ah do declare, Ah think the raht term is "hunker" day-own.

An' Ah dunno what real 'Mericans do, cuz Ah'm just a dirty heathen immigrant who wrecks the may-ath and sah-ence grade curves and steals the job thay-at boy day-own the road should've hay-ad. Such a shame, he sho' was a good quarterbay-ack.

U can haz cheezburger 2.

Yes but it'd only be a sham marriage, we don't actually have to like each other. Do UK immigration officials do house checks to make sure you're actually living together in the same bedroom and all that?

U can haz green kard...

But why would you want one? Nobody likes Yanks these days.

If I lose my job and can't find another one, I'll have to leave the UK. I'm compiling a list of people I can potentially marry in order to stay. Anybody interested? Only UK citizens need apply.

Goddammit. I need to change that handlebar tape.

Did you whiz past me on the right hand side? Or were you walking with your bike and a girl on the pavement?

Two gents, one fixed, one SS, passed me heading east around 18:15-ish at a traffic light on Queen Victoria St, near Blackfriars, before the weird twisty-windy "slow the F down" bit with the cycle path that's been closed for the past month.

The fixed gent had a blue frame (I think), was wearing a helmet, carrying a black bag, and trackstanding for all he was worth.

The SS gent had curly hair and earphones.

Anybody on here?

Incidentally, I don't see how anybody on here can manage to chat to somebody else while riding. I keep spotting FG/SS riders but am too busy "ah, ah, ah, ah, stayin' alive, stayin' alive" to say hi to anybody, let alone strike up a conversation.

Forgot to ask... if you did decide to go to uni, what would you study, and where would you do it?

If you choose to study here, you'll have to pay overseas-student tuition, and it'll cost you an arm, both legs, and all your bikes as well. For the cheapest uni tuition, you'd probably have to go back to your home state (Colorado, right?).

So if you're determined to stay in London... then uni probably isn't an option for you.

[Edit] Just to give you an idea of my background, so you can decide for yourself if I'm biased, and what my biases are: I did the school -> uni/grad school -> Wall Street and City job route.

@ Chris:

I think it really depends on what industry you want to work in, and what kind of role. Reading the previous responses, it sounds like media & art employers value experience over degrees. But there are other industries that'll toss your CV in the trash without even looking at it if you don't have a uni degree.

I'm not saying that a uni degree necessarily means anything. I know plenty of morons with Ivy League or Oxbridge degrees. And there are some degrees out there that aren't worth the money they're printed on. But you should bear in mind that some employers are so overwhelmed by the sheer number of applicants for any job, that they have no choice but to enforce a minimum entry requirement just to help them whittle down the number of candidates.

Mail-room-to-front-office-desk stories like Broker's are not the norm. It happens, but you need to happen to be in the right place at the right time.

^ I don't care. I still love your inflammatory c*nt-baiting comments anyway.

Show the world that you're rich... or just plain moronic.

http://www.charged.mobi/2008/08/iphone-app-shows-everyone-youre-rich-or-stupid/

Grrrrrrr. My first bike-vs-car accident happened on Bethnal Green Rd, exact same thing (car from opposite direction suddenly decided to turn right, across my path). I was lucky, escaped with only scrapes and bruises. Same goes for the bike.

All the best, Paul... glad to hear your injuries aren't life-threatening at least. Heal up soon!

hahaha my face killed your mini mac hahaha

Hippy m'dear, I've never met you, but are you really that ugly?