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I seem to remember, maybe late 70's or early 80's there was a board outside Southwark Town Hall (then on Peckham Rd). It showed road casualties of all kinds over the years...very public, very visible. No borough seems to do that now.

One of our most problematic junctions in Lewisham (Deptford Bridge) is probably even worse for pedestrians than cyclists, a fact I hadn't realised until we did a photoshoot down there with Darren Johnson...I had to cross it with everyone else in the group, including people representing pedestrians. Awful.

 Tower Hamlets Cyclists last year attached identification cards to the ghost bikes in the borough, and, I believe, try to keep them looking cared for.  One of the saddest sights is the bike for Min Joo Lee at Kings X.  It is in a dreadful state, or was the last time I saw it.  Every time I pass it, I keep thinking I should get in touch with someone about it...anyone know who or what organisation that might be?

It's absolutely true that over emphasising the danger is counter productive. Saw that in action in a Lewisham after the death of Paul Hutcheson on Loampit Vale, almost exactly a year ago. Two women I had recently taught how to ride and who I had persuaded to join a quiet short weekly ride on the Waterlink Way, stopped coming the week after. One woman told me his tragic death had made her "realise" how dangerous cycling was. As for the other woman, her husband was the one who made the decision! He used the example of Mr Hutcheson's death to justify his decision not to "allow" his wife to take part. Didn't matter that the ride was mostly on traffic free paths and quiet back streets, about as far from the conditions on Loampit Vale as you can get for riding in the borough.

For the same reason, I am conflicted about ghost bikes. On the one hand, I understand why we don't want to forget the individual. However, on the other, again it can be a regular reminder of something terrible that is still, statistically, very unlikely to happen. Won't stop me riding, but definitely not going to encourage anyone who might be considering swapping their bus, tube ride or car for a bike. There used to be one at the junction of Brixton Hill and the S Circular. I had arranged to meet someone there, who was already cycling but wanted instruction in dealing with more difficult junctions. They had never seen a ghost bike before and I had to explain it.. (It was in memory of Kate Charles, killed in 2007, I believe, someone correct me if I'm wrong). It didn't really help to increase that individual's confidence on the road. We had a fairly good session that day, but she confessed to me recently, she still won't use that junction, even though the ghost bike is now gone.

i don't agree with his antics as he sets out to deliberately antagonise the one organisation that could make the most positive impact - TfL.

I've yet to see what he's offering by way of viable alternatives beyond histrionics and affectations. There's plenty of people out there doing good work that don't resort to this sort of am-dram nonsense, yet his fannying about tends to drown out the rest.

You have a point....I also think the whole die in thing is over the top, but as I said, have supported a couple as I respect his commitment, even though I am one of those campaigners myself who is far less flamboyant than he and might be drowned out by his more dramatic approach. It's the nastiness and personal attacks of some of the criticisms which I felt was unjustified. Your post however, is a good model of how to criticise someone's actions or decisions, without all that nasty rubbish cluttering up the argument.

This sounds a lovely idea...what kind of pace roughly (wouldn't want to hold anyone up).

I have supported Donnachadh, even though I don't fully agree with his style....he genuinely wants to improve things and has put loads of energy into this campaign. His background is dance and the theatre so it didn't surprise me when he came up with this dramatic, possibly over the top stuff. Fine, you don't agree with it, so don't support it, no one is going to insult you because of your choice. Not like the nasty way some people here have chosen to insult those who have decided to support him. Totally incorrectly as well....at least get your insults on target. Sad.

Saturday a friend led us to Cambridge from Mile End on a route new to me via Newmarket, which made just over an imperial century. Lovely route, bits of the DunRun kept popping up! Also immaculately planned, as the lunch cafe stop coincided with an enormous thunderstorm and torrential rain which had largely subsided by the time we set off again.
Sunday, a little 20 mile pootle with Greenwich and Lewisham Cyclists along the Thames path to Thamesmead Tor and back.

submitted. i liked the choice in 8th question what are your motives for cycling - personal freedom. if someone steals my bike they still my freedom. so i printed and put a sticker on my bike with William Wallace's speech:

"Sons of Scotland. I am William Wallace."
"William Wallace is seven feet tall."
"Yes, I've heard. Kills men by the hundreds, and if he were here, he'd consume the English with fireballs from his eyes, and bolts of lightning from his arse.
(laughter)
I am William Wallace and I see a whole army of my countrymen, here in defiance of tyranny. You've come to fight as free men, and free men you are. What will you do without freedom? Will you fight?!"
"Fight against that, no, we will run, and we will live."
"Aye, fight and you may die, run and you'll live, for at least a while. And dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies, that that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom!

Oh, you mean this speech. http://youtu.be/VztGbYnQVOs

But, it does read like a bit of a rant...which it wasn't meant to be...apologies.

Stream of consciousness. Good enough for James Joyce, good enough for me.

Yes, infrastructure can often make cycling really difficult...it can also make cycling unacceptably dangerous. The Bow roundabout for example, where people were led into unsafe positions by the cycling infrastructure itself and lost their lives as a result. But I don't think the Surrey canal path is in this category..I know the bit you are talking about...you have to slow right down there, braking if you are coming down the slope from Glengall Rd, if not, the odds are high that you will hit someone at peak times, and still possible at off peak. It's not hard to work out and not hard to deal with. ...yes it could have been built differently...but let's consider the route's purpose: it's a shared path for walkers and cyclists, and as I said in my OP, I think it's pretty apparent the designers didn't plan for the numbers of people that use it. A mistake, maybe. But to spend a lot of money on redesigning and rebuilding it I, personally, don't consider justifiable because there is an alternative that cyclists who wish to travel fast can use, and the potential for harm is easily dealt with by responding to the conditions which are clear to see. We can't expect local councils to tailor every little piece of infrastructure exactly to the specifications of individual cyclists where there are acceptable and easily available alternatives. I would much rather they spent our money on making the routes which really do force cyclists into unsafe positions on the road, safer and more acceptable, those routes, on which we have to ride every day to go about our business and on which far too many cyclists have died precisely because of the infrastructure.

Vanneau, the aggressive riding and resulting complaints are indeed the reason the local LCC groups are trying to persuade people to consider the alternative if they need to ride fast. Those of us who know it could help by telling others about it too. Meanwhile, we can also work on the council to get the road route better signed.

Hanuman, could it not also have been avoided if you had both been riding more slowly? Unfortunately, the path is as it is...as my driving instructor said to me years ago, every time I began to moan about something or someone else on the road, as an excuse for something I had done wrong "You must drive appropriately for the conditions as they are, not as you would like them to be"
If you were going fast enough for a "spectacular" crash, and don't really want to moderate your speed, then try the road alternative.

Do you have any problems with it, Vanneau? Anything that could be improved? We really need to get more people off the path on to this route at very busy times....complaints and conflict on the canal path have been increasing.

Now I'm really confused

It would be ruder to go without one.

It seems to be where Mr Lawrence's wine bar was and that has swapped next door, the old Mr Lawrence's wine merchant....thoroughly confused local here.

This, apparently, is our new local. It seems almost rude not to go.

We love this path, don't we? Pleasant, free from motor traffic, green, smooth (except for the bits under the bridges!). What more could a cyclist want? Well, at quiet times it probably does fit that description, but use it in rush hour, especially the morning peak, and it's quite different. It's shared use and is as attractive to people who walk to work and school as it it is to those who ride. The problem is, there are loads of both groups at these peak times, and the people who designed the path, I don't believe, had any idea as to just how popular it would become.

Consequently, it just isn't wide enough for people, young (sometimes the very young, just walking) toddlers, dogs, older people, people on mobility scooters and slower cyclists to share it with those cyclists who want, or need to really push the pace on their daily commute.  If that sounds like you (and very occasionally that sounds like me!) there is an alternative.  Trouble is the council haven't signed it very well at all and I'm pretty sure most non locals won't know it's there.  Basically, it follows Sumner Rd, which can be accessed via the fire gate on your left as you start on the Surrey Canal Walk from the South.  Go through  that gate on to Jocelyn Street, follow it round and it takes  you into Sumner Rd...from here it's straight up, over the junction at Commercial Way on to Pekham Hill St from where you can get in to Burgess Park, or back on to Glengall Rd via a right turn through some bollards and thence across the OKR to London Bridge.  Happy to ride it with anyone who doesn't know it.   Southwark and Lewisham Cyclists will be trying to get the council to improve this route further in the future....if you have any ideas tell us (lewishamcyclists@gmail.com). https://www.facebook.com/groups/72380106728/

From SE London (Bromley) look up Eddystone Road and go over footbridge and head towards Peckham Rye - through Rye Lane, Surrey Canal Walk. Cycle route (signed) leads across OKR and takes you to Tower Bridge Road. Pretty quiet and avoid OKR - I reckon its as quick if not quicker. Main roads = traffic signals and traffic, quieter roads = pretty consistent journey time.

Some of us in Southwark and Lewisham Cyclists are trying to encourage cyclists who wish to move at a fairly fast pace to use the on road alternative to Surrey Canal Walk...it's a pretty narrow shared use path and some of us feel there isn't room to travel safely at most people's usual cycling speed along here at peak use times anyway....not the thread to discuss this here...will start another in a more appropriate place.....wishing all those cyclists hurt on this fast road a good recovery.

1. Cazakstan
   
2. Doctor Cake
   
3. mands
   
4. Seraphinx
   
5. Cafewanda
   
6. saoirse
   

I guess I should add my name to this as I have the route....will get my act together and post it later tonight. Anyone know if Bar Italia is open that night as I fancy making a coffee stop there after midnight.

1 Toastyoneuk

1. saoirse
   

I can't be there... too far away. I'll try and make December's.

I think I was a bit dazed after eating tarmac....luckily beer seems to have effected a miracle cure.

A good day out all in all, will put photos up presently

I saw that muntjac as well...and the blokes with the stove-in car did say something about "cyclists riding two abreast"

Realised afterwards that I should have offered some of my dried fruit... your blood sugar probably took a dive when you came off. Had I seen it happen, I probably would have... It would have helped. Too late now. Doh!

Was the car with it's front end completely smashed in we came across anything to do with you lot up front? Somewhere around Chishall? (I think) As we passed, the guy shouted out at us, "that's what comes of trying to avoid bloody cyclists". Oops! We couldn't quite work out what he might have done to have damaged his car so. And quite how merely avoiding cyclists could cause that kind of damage. But we were relieved not to see anyone hurt.

Oh good.... Enjoy. You deserve a large one of whatever it is you're having. Hope someone bought it for you!