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i'm not one for taking in high glycemic index foods (on or off the bike) it's just that the ride changed from a stop at 45miles to 75miles and that's what i had left in my pockets so it was going to get eaten whatever it was.

I'm trying to give general advice. I'm not having ago at what you chose to do on a specific ride. I would have probably done exactly the same in your situation.

no way do i have the glycogen stores to do that distance without extra fuel.

As I said, that's exactly what used to happen to me. But with some work you can train your fat metabolism to allow you to go further and further and use less of your glycogen stores in doing so. Long slow distance rides. Morning rides on an empty stomach.

I'm not advocating bonking, I'd never suggest doing that on purpose. I never go out on a ride longer than 20km without some form of food with me, just in case.

but then i don't exactly have a lot of fat to burn.

You do. Everyone does. Anything under 10% of body fat in an average person (i.e. not a professional athlete) is unhealthy bordering on dangerous.

Every 1lb of fat is worth 3500kcal.

So even a 10 stone weakling with a relatively low body fat percentage of 10% will be a minimum of 14lbs of fat. 14lbs of fat is 49,000kcal of energy.

Even with 6% reserved as 'essential fats' that still leaves a minimum of 4% giving 5.6lbs of fat == 19600kcal. No way to exhaust that with 'steady cycling' which is about 400-500kcal an hour.

Lower than 10% of body fat (for blokes) and it's unhealthy or you're an endurance/pro athlete anyway.

Personally I'd start off by ditching the energy drinks/gels. Refined sugars are not what your body needs on a long ride. Reliance on them is usually a sign that you've messed up your nutrition intake in the couple of hours preceeding needing them. They're ok in high paced rides like Sportives where the faster pace will deplete glycogen stores earlier but (IMHO) they should be used sparingly in proper long distance rides.

Long Distance is just about getting miles in the legs, most importantly, keeping eating and drinking.

The first thing to do is to put miles in to help your general fitness and train your fat metabolism. This makes your body able to provide a greater percentage of energy from fat rather than carbohydrates/sugars.

The human body's fat burning is a continuum. At low intensity exercise the body can meet almost all of its energy requirements from burning its fat stores. The faster you go the less able the body is to meet this need burning fat alone and so the more your body uses up blood sugars (glycogen). You'll always be burning some fat and some glycogen; fat burns in a carbohydrate fire. Your glycogen stores can provide about 2000kcal of energy, this is enough for 4 to 5 hours of steady cycling. (Not 4 to 5 hours of Tour de France pace cycling.)

The "fitter" you are the greater the proportion of fat to carbs you'll burn for a particular effort level. So that 2000kcal of glycogen, combined with 2000kcal from your fat reserves could get you round a 100mile ride at a reasonable pace.

Running out of glycogen is what causes the bonk (or hitting the wall). It also means your body is unable to even burn fat effectively enough to keep you going. So even if you go at a steady enough pace to use mainly fat reserves you still need to keep your blood sugar levels topped up.

When I first go back into cycling I couldn't do more than a couple of hours without feeling starving. Now I can do a 10 hour ride without needing to eat. Not fast, only averaging 15mph or so, but that's not entirely shabby. I wouldn't recommend doing a ride this way, I still eat something (500kcal worth) every 2 or 3 hours, and drain a water bottle or two (or three depending on heat) in those few hours.

I do my Audaxing on nothing more than 100km of pan-flat commuting a week as my 'training'. I started off with a 100km ride (London to Cambridge charity ride) which piqued my interest to long distance riding as I heard of people riding back to London. I found Audax and entered a 200. Finishing this in 13h or so left me shattered but the more I've done since then the easier they've become. I now don't think much about doing a 200km ride, and certainly don't bother with any specific training (but then I'd never describe myself as fast at all). I then went on to do 300km, 400km, 600km rides. A 3 day 730km ride up to Edinburgh last March and then the four and a half day London-Edinburgh-London covering 1400km.

Also, at first I couldn't survive without energy drinks (Hi-5, SiS Go, etc). Now I carry the powder for emergency use only, same with Energy Gels. I just have squash in my water bottles or water with Nuun rehydration tablets to ward off dehydration and replace lost salts/electrolytes.

There's a place called Ugley? That's great.

Yes. It does have an Ugley Womens' Institute and there's also a Biffa depot on the outskirts of Ugley (on the B1383).

This, and more jokes, can be found in the Ugley -> Twatt (there's one in both the Orkneys and Shetlands) forumenger ride thread somewhere here.

The CTC used to organise an Ugley -> Nasty (just North of Great Munden) and back 50km ride every so often.

Anything short and flatish in the londons famous london area within the next month or so?

Any of the Henham/Ugley rides are good. Just so happens the 3 clubs near the 'Uts all do theirs in the next few weeks (27th Feb, 6th Mar, 13th Mar):-

Find them in the calendar listing at http://www.aukweb.net/cal/index.htm

Most offer a choice of distances (50, 100km, 150km and 200km) although not all provide every one.

Easy to get to from London, train from Liverpool St to Elsenham and a 2 mile ride the other end.

1) Pick ride to enter
2) Print out entry form, fill it in
3) Send entry form, cheque (plus extra £2 if not an Audax UK or CTC member) and 2 C5 SAEs to organiser
4) Receive routesheet and event info sheet
5) Turn up before the start (at least 30 minutes gives you a chance to get a cup of tea/coffee and a chat to various nervous people)
6) Ride, stopping at various cafes or back to the 'Uts for more tea/cake/beans on toast
7) Finish, eat more food, wobble back to train

Typical ride is £5 or under to enter (although £2 extra if you're not an Audax UK or CTC member).

They all stick to the mainly flat bits of Essex, Cambs and Herts. Definitely on the flatter end of the spectrum of rides.

Re: Mr Greenbank's LEL fixed: Wow. I'm stuck with the fixed for the time being for financial reasons, so I'll see how I do with longer distances. 1200km is a hell of a long way. Re-chapeau. There can't be a huge number of cyclists able to do that sort of ride fixed?

It's getting more popular amongst Audaxers. I think there were 7 fixeds on LEL (out of ~500 riders). They'll be a couple of hundred on PBP (out of ~5000 riders). It's not much harder on long distance rides than having gears.

Look back in this thread for links to posts about what to carry on long distance rides.

Not sure that LEL is harder than PBP. PBP is 200km shorter but hilliler / consistently undulating (rather than the pan flat Southern section of LEL), with tougher time limits (40 hours to the 614km to Brest, then 50 hours to get back).

18 months is enough time to get fit for PBP. I went travelling around South America for Nov/Dec 2008 and didn't touch a bike at all in that time. I came back and failed to complete a DIY 100 down to the South Coast (pretty much the same as London to Brighton) as I'd lost all of my cycling fitness. From there I built up to finishing LEL in July using my commute (flat 12km each way in London), blatting round Richmond Park and the Surrey Hills, and other Audaxes.

Plan on doing an SR this year, ideally with some hilly rides (Brevet Cymru 400, Bryan Chapman 600 for example.)

Read this thread: http://www.lfgss.com/thread60.html

HTFU.

And consider doing some Audax rides.

www.audax.uk.net

And so it begins. The Paris-Brest-Paris season starts now.

Anyone else planning on having a go at this?

Oh Yes.

Fixed naturally. 46x17 (71.4") with a bailout of 46x18 (67") if I get tired. There's nothing really steep at all.

The longer ride you can do this year the earlier you can pre-register (you still need to do a full SR in 2011 to qualify). I'm looking to do a 400 this year, possibly a 600 if I can convince Mrs GB.

Greater London has no really nasty hills. They're either steep but too short to do any damage, or long but too gentle.

There are some notable entries:-
Broomfield Hill and Dark Hill in Richmond Park (they start hurting on the 5th or 6th lap).
Morden Hill, Lewisham (from Elverson Road DLR up to Blackheath).
The long drag up to Warlingham from Croydon past Sanderstead
Titsey Hill coming the other way is fun.
Box Hill (but coming up the B2032 past Betchworth Station)

Indeed, do this route on fixed without walking and I'll give you a gold star:-

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/167493

If you don't want the gentle warm up then get the train to Box Hill and Westhumble station and start there. The only two points I have to walk are the top of Sheephouse Lane (after Wotton) and the 18% bit of White Down after the hairpin just after crossing the railway on the way back up to Ranmore common. With a 67" gear and a whole bag of HTFU I think I might be able to grimp up them both.

Combining lots of these into a nice hilly DIY 200 Audax you can do:

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/360977

The obvious hillier version is to go West of the A24 after Horsham.

I do like hilly rides on fixed. This was fun: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Audax-Bryan-Chapman-2004-route

67" again but I did have to walk in a couple of places. The YH drive at Dolgellau (both times) and Cross Foxes on the A470 (it was hailing).

No-one up for riding back.....?

I would but for 4 reasons. In increasing importance:-

4) I can't ride DD at all this year, let alone ride there and back like last year.
3) I've got an OU residential course (MSXR209) in Nottingham that starts on the 24th July
2) If I wasn't doing that I'd be doing this: http://www.mille-cymru.org.uk/ (1000km Audax in 75 hours around Wales. Possibly would have given it a go on fixed too)
1) Baby GB is 4 weeks old and I can't get the required long distance "training" in before July.

McNasty is a truly bonkers man.

You could also look at doing:-

http://www.aukweb.net/cal/perms/calsolo.php?Ride=SJ02 - 3100km Trafalgar - Trafalgar

http://www.aukweb.net/cal/perms/calsolo.php?Ride=SJ01 - 4014km Orient Express Audax

Ross BD also does a Peneperipherique: http://www.bentley-davies.co.uk/Permanents/Peneperipheral.pdf - 5100km if you do the job lot.

Or, with a spare 34 days (maximum time):-

http://www.aukweb.net/cal/perms/calsolo.php?Ride=THO01 - 6800km Transamerica Trail

Good choices. Dean 300, SA 400 and BCM 600 are lovely rides on fixed. ;)

I'll be doing shorter Audaxes this year, if at all, as baby GB is only 2 weeks old. I might try and squeeze in a 400 to keep PBP2011 options open although I'm not that worried as I've got plenty of years left in my legs (I hope).

I popped in there the other day on the way to somewhere, they do nothing regarding frame building/repairs etc.

They focus on selling Bianchi's now.

Nice chaps but cannot help but feel that as they own a famous name they could be doing more with it.

That's kind of what I expected. It's my most local LBS and useful for some bits and bobs. They do a good wheel build there too.

Did you take it into Holdsworth in Putney and, if so, what did they say?

Nice. Generally uninteresting ride up to Cambridge and back on Saturday. It was a bit blustery though.

Saw 2 fixeds (possibly 3) who had just climbed Essex Hill up into Elmdon as I was on my way back home, anyone here?

Will make the next DIY a bit more interesting. Thinking of this later on this month:-

Putney, Royal Tunbridge Wells, Hayward's Heath, Brigton, Horsham, Putney.

http://www.bikehike.co.uk/mapview.php?id=22287

[EDIT] And if my legs haven't deserted me by the time I get to Horsham I'll go North up the other side of the A24...Warnham, Walliswood, Abinger, Leith Hill, Abinger Common, White Down, Ranmore Common, Westhumble, Box Hill, Headley...

DIY 200 from Putney up to Cambridge and back tomorrow.

Upper Thames 200 from Sonning Common (nr Reading) on 7th November
South Bucks Winter Warmer 200 from Great Kingshill (nr High Wycombe) on 4th December

Yeah, but my climbing is remarkably lame on fixed. Really, it makes grown men cry just watching it.

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Upper-Thames-200-unofficial

Remembered that it goes via Bix, and also Ashendon, but the climb up to Chipping Norton is pretty steady.

It was my second ever Audax and I was woefully unfit back then.

Luton & Herts 150 (inc 50km to/form Putney): Should be rolling. No big hills. ~1700m climbing in 200km probably.

Golden Tints 200. Gently rolling Herts/Essex/Cambs. No big hills. ~1800m climbing in 200km probably. My first fixed 200, nice introduction. Won't be doing it this year as I'm busy that weekend. Will be doing Yeovil to Padstow DIY instead (with gears although I may take the fixed over Dartmoor for fun).

Anfractuous 200. Hilly, including some reasonable hills. 2400m climbing in 200km. Not an ideal first fixed ride unless you like grimping and shouting at things.

Upper Thames 200. Undulating. 1950m climbing. No big hills. Could be tougher because of possible weather in Nov but a possible first fixed ride.

SBWW 200. Undulating. 2000m climbing probably. Some average hills. Not ideal first fixed territory.

Easing back into it.

Luton & Herts 150 on Sunday starting from Bushey.

Will be riding to/from the start to make it into a 200km ride.

Sep: Golden Tints 200 from Henham (was my first Audax 3 years ago).
Oct: Anfractuous 200 from Chalfont St Peter (inc Streatley Hill).
Nov: Upper Thames 200 from Sonning Common
Dec: South Bucks Winter Warmer 200 from Great Kingshill

Ah, fair enough. I got to Eskdalemuir at about 2am on Tuesday, slept for a bit (on the floor) and left at 7am. Got back at 7.30pm (lounged around a bit too much in Traquair) and left into the maelstrom at 10pm making it to Alston for 6am with a dozie-enforced sleep stop in a church porch in Brampton along the way.

Not according to the calendar but maybe. Should I be doing as many BRM events as I can next year or do you reckon the 400 will suffice to demonstrate my worthiness.

No pressing need, but the more you can do the better suited to it you'll be. I found LEL (and the weather) relatively easy compared to some of the truly grim weather rides this year (Bryan Chapman for example). I doubt I would have had the mental toughness to complete PBP 2007 if I'd tried to do it in my first real year of Audaxing, I'm happy I held off and picked LEL2009 for my first big one.

From my position on the other side of the control at Eskdalemuir, you definitely seemed to be having a wet time of it.

You were there? I would have said hello if I'd known. You weren't the person that threw my glasses away were you? :)

Going to go for an early SR next year. Anyone fancy setting up a fixed fleche team for the Easter Arrows to York?

Unlikely to do Easter Arrows but an SR is a good bet if you're thinking of PBP. More and more clamour for places means that they're giving priority to people who do a BRM 400 in 2010 (you'll still have to do the SR in 2011, and within the restrictive dates they publish). I can't remember if Easter Arrows qualify as BRM.

Although Audax is non-competitive someone still has to win them...

First home in LEL was a German in about 65 hours. He (and a bunch of Italians) knocked off the first 714km to Dalkeith in 24 hours.

Remember:

Sportive = Pretend you're racing.
Audax = Pretend you're not.

65 miles. About 59700 crank rotations.

More maths fail.

That's hardcore doing 65 miles on a 22" gear.

(The gear size in inches is the equivalent diameter of an ordinary wheel, not the circumference. So one revolution of the cranks on a 67" gear moves you PI*67" or 210.5" along the road.)

59700 / pi =~ 19,000 revolutions

My fixed record now stands at 1401km in 115 hours.

London -> Edinburgh -> London 1400km Audax.

Day 1: 8:30am start, Cheshunt to Thorne (via Wragby). Shower and 3 hours sleep.
Day 2: 6:15am start, Thorne to Eskdalemuir. 1.5 hours sleep.
Day 3: 6:00am start, Eskdalemuir to Dalkeith (shower) and back down to Alston in hideous weather. 3 hour stop at Eskdalemuir on way back, 30 min doze in church porch in Brampton, got in to Alston at about 6am. 3 hour sleep in a bed in Alston.
Day 4: 10:00am start, Alston to Thorne. Shower, 3 hours sleep.
Day 5: 6:00am start, Thorne to Cheshunt. 3:30am finish.

LEL Done and I'm back home.

Finished at 3:30am this morning, roughly 2 hours in hand (not including the two hour extension granted because of the foul weather).

Saw Danial at Middleton Tyas, he looked well, hope he finished.

Epic.