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Buffalo Bill [quote]TheDude Alas I have to work in about an hour so sleeping isn't an option. I hope your sanctimoniousness keeps you warm tonight.

My sanctimoniousness? Where have I said that I was morally superior to anyone?[/quote]

Perhaps I misconstrued what I thought was a sarcastic comment. If I did I apologise.

mickster TheDude - Where does this 'one-sided view that cyclists are never to blame' come from? I don't hear anyone spouting it other than you. Outside of internet chat forums ie in the real world the blame seems to be consistently - and usually indefensibly - laid anywhere but at the feet of the motorist when tragedies occur. We've seen this with the 5 deaths referred to above, we've seen this with the 500 quid fine doled out to the driver at Rhyl, and we all experienced this in a less lethal form virtually every day we're on the roads when some cock cuts you up / passes too close / left turns on you. And there's yet another example of this already in the MT thread that Bill's referred to - a first hand report of a rider being told by plod that they shouldn't be on the road.

Whenever this debate comes up someone always comes back with the same old straw man argument about how they've been disgusted at the lack of regard many of their fellow cyclists show for other road users when they jump red lights, ride on pavements, without lights etc etc. But at heart this is nothing more than a load sanctimonious self-loathing twaddle intended to deflect attention from what we all know - by daily experience - to be the real issue; the very real lack of rights and protection under the law that cyclists are afforded by the authorities and courts whenever a bicycle/vehicle collision occurs.

I was referring to this forum specifically, and like I said in my first post I was playing the role as Devils advocate, trying to inspire debate, which I kinda have. All I said was if you break the law then your asking for trouble. I never condoned the actions of motorists who are oblivious to the dangers they pose to the cyclist and fully agree that cyclists should be afforded far greater rights when involved in an accident.

MA3K [quote]MrSmith what also pisses me of is you all probably have a similar story. going about your business and being intimidated off the road by 7+ tons of metal driven by fat idiots

Too true.[/quote]

Indubitably.

Alas I have to work in about an hour so sleeping isn't an option. I hope your sanctimoniousness keeps you warm tonight.

Buffalo Bill First of all, I don't say that cyclists were infallible. That's obviously nonsense. No group of road-users is inherently infallible.

Where I have seen the evidence in cyclist/hgv/lorry fatalities, which is 5 cases, the lorry driver was culpable. Either failure to observe or failure to signal.

There is big problem with HGV cyclist collisions. The problem is partly a lack of awareness on the part of cyclists that simply riding along the road, following marked cycle paths and obeying the law will not keep you safe. But also there is problem with a basic lack of safety equipment on lorries and training in its use. The guy who killed Cynthia Barlow's daughter said that not only did he not look in the proximity mirror before turning, but that he also had never used it, and NEVER been trained its correct use.

There's also a problem with cyclists and other road-users saying that any cyclist (whether they know the circumstances or not) killed by a left-turning lorry is at fault or worse. The most notable case was the LCC borough organiser who described Seb Lukomski as an idiot and the uk.rec.cycling contributor who anonymously described him as a 'fuck-wit'. Attitudes like this endorse the view that a cyclist who dies as the result of a collision with a left-turning lorry must automatically bear the blame.

Which is how you are coming off, to me. Maybe I am getting you wrong.

I agree that lorry drivers etc need to be made aware of the dangers they pose to cyclists. In no way am I trying to disrespect the deaths of anyone but I am tired of a seemingly one-sided view that cyclists are never to blame, attitudes like that only encourage reckless riding.

Buffalo Bill No, you said:

"I have been called to the scenes of cycle vs car/lorry/bus/pedestrian incidents and the majority of the time the cyclist was at fault."

So which one is it?

I gave you examples? From my experience cyclists have caused the majority of the accidents. But im not saying they are always to blame.

What is your stance? That cyclists are infallible?

Buffalo Bill [quote]TheDude

I have been called to the scenes of cycle vs car/lorry/bus/pedestrian incidents and the majority of the time the cyclist was at fault.

This is a quite extraordinary statement, which doesn't chime with the evidence that I have seen. Please elaborate.[/quote]

With the pedestrian collisions the main accidents happen when a cyclist is riding on the path and approaches the pedestrian from behind. They do not anticipate the pedestrian stopping or moving across the pavement. Most of these accidents have been minor lacerations but I have seen two more serious incidents where the pedestrian was knocked into a moving car (dislocated arm and broken ankle) and one where the pedestrian suffered a broken rib.

As for motor vehicle collisions I have seen two head on collisions due to the cyclist riding the wrong way up the road at night. The major causes of cycle vs motor vehicle related incidents is the running of the red light and people not using any form of light at night.

I have also seen alot of incidents when the non cyclist was at fault but just wanted to point out that some cyclists just lack basic common sense.

He may be a bit odd but you gotta respect someone with that level of passion for cycling.

Not wanting to play devils advocate but sometimes I wonder to what extent lorry/car drivers are at fault. From some of the videos I have seen on the 'tube' alot of messengers/fakengers etc are quite willing to ignore the road laws. If this the case then not to be harsh but its their fault they get hurt. I find it hypercritical that some cyclists comment on the ignorance of pedestrians and drivers when they travel the wrong way up roads, cycle on the pavement and run red lights. I know that time is money in the messenger business but simple common-sense has gotta play a part.

I have been called to the scenes of cycle vs car/lorry/bus/pedestrian incidents and the majority of the time the cyclist was at fault. I agree that drivers of lorries, taxis etc should be encouraged to be more aware of other road users but so should cyclists.

flip i can't believe my friend is selling this, he's been working on it for so long, just finished it
he says it's too small for him, though, and he needs the money for other bike projects
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dancingweaponofmassdestruction/sets/72157600401874698/

This is the same as my previous bike (except mine was black). The one that got stolen by some cunt who probably had know idea what it meant to me.

I just emailed the guy about shipping it over here. If the cost is not massive then I think I'll bid about $900. Hmm maybe a $1000 with the poor state of the dollar.

TheBrick(Tommy) [quote]TheDude

Simply put...n. I have seen soome pretty horrific things (decapetated infants, Gun shot wounds to the head etc)

oh my god, one job I don't fancy![/quote]

Its not that bad. Things like that only happen very rarely. Most of the time its just broken bones, cuts etc. I volunteer once a year for the red cross and have been to Somalia, Sudan and Sierra Leone...Now if you want horrific these places take the biscuit. I won't go into details but lets say im fully aware of how lucky I am to live in this country.

Is being a paramedic anything like that Scorsese film with Nicholas Cage?

Simply put...no. I have seen some pretty horrific things (decapetated infants, Gun shot wounds to the head etc) but these are balanced by the the good things (I have delivered 3 babies one of them on a train!) And more importantly I have control of the siren....Ne naw ne naw ne naw! What more do you want!

Stef so who has enough organizationals skills to coordinate the booking of a group train ticket?
let's make a list the we'll see who will want to take responsability.

-this is for the train back from the Dunwich Dynamo:

Stef

I live in Ipswich so im going to ride home. Assuming im still alive.

aidan [quote]smeear hahah
digital design, loserX2
im all grown-up now, finished studies and everything

(i cant stop trying to figure out what type of shoe i would be?!)

I would like to be a moon boot. Or perhaps a Wallabee.

Why is it that most people who ride fixed are into the arts/design? The ony two fixed riders I have ever met, my uncle and some random guy riding a pista were both photographers. Hmm...I think I need switch careers...Hmm I own a mac...does that count?

A shoe. Right or left? Chelsea boot? Specifics...I need specifics?

Since becoming a member of this wonderous forum I have been somewhat in awe of the amount of disposable income you guys seem to have. Many people having multiple track bikes with cycles shorts that seem to cost more than my entire bike.

So I am just inquistive to know what you guys do for a living to allow you to live in the most expensive city in the world yet still maintain your bike addiction?

Oh, Im a paramedic by the way.

Stef oh it was going so well till the Take That bit!! could have said something like Libertines to Clash...thumbs up though

Huh...? Take that are the saviours of pop music I 'll have you know! Perhaps Justin Timberlake to prince, The strokes to the Ramones, Ben to Jerry?

Greenman I'm reading some of these posts and I have to laugh. Do you realize how self-absorbed you sound as you dictate the terms of what's cool and what's not? I am born and raised in NYC. I've ridden the streets of Manhattan since I was a schoolboy. Almost lost my right foot to a cabbie who ran a red light. Took me two years to walk properly again. After this long recovery, I'm back out there again, have ridden almost 1800 miles in 2007 thus far, with a long-term goal of riding Paris-Brest-Paris in 2011. Part of the preparation involves the Boston-Montreal-Boston 1200K in 2008. Because it' involves Boston and it's part of my recovery from near disaster and there's a Boston edition Langster and the geometry fits my body well, I reserved one. But if I read you right, because I want this bike I'm not cool; when you see me you will assume I'm just a coffee shop poseur. You'll disrespect me when you see me on this bike, blissfully unaware that I have eight other bikes in my garage (vintage junkie - and three of them I built myself from mongrels). You'll look at my bike and not my muscle tone as you decide I'm not worth speaking to. Perhaps you should consider taking a moment or two to get to know someone, judging them by their character instead by some artificially-created social standard. The coolest thing you can do is decide for yourself what is good instead of relying on the crowd to decide for you.

Perhaps you are buying a Langster for the right reasons but surely your not oblivious to the negative connotations surrounding such a bike. To most messengers/fakengers/early adopters the langster represents an ever encroaching commerciality on what up till recently has been an exclusive - read: Cool if you wish- past-time. They...We? Do not hate the riders of these bikes but the companies who so obvisously just jump on the bandwagon to make a quick buck. I simply think it is human nature to want some sort of exclusivity, to be unique, be it in the way they dress, the music they listen to or the bike they ride. Langsters are what Harry Potter is to The black Magician trilogy, what East 17 are to Take That!

Mike Giants custom cannondale

http://www.fecalface.com/SF/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=97&Itemid=69

Tuscon-Hong Kong-Tokyo-Berlin-Ipswich-Croyd-Camberwell-Ipswich

The original littlest hobo.

Im also doing it fixed. I ride 52/19. Is this a good idea?

Im looking for a seat post. 25.6mm width and in silver/chrome. Will trade for pretty much anything I own!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tscgod/305760189/in/photostream/

dicki ( julian ) ipswich possie
that famous hotbed of british hip hop / rap

Def tex are awesome. They have been around for quite some time now. But like most british hip hop goes shamefully unnoticed.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=51972106 This guy is also from IP1 (Ipswich) and is an awesome producer....Well I think so anyway.