Most recent activity
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I think £150 all-in would be a decent price on this. Looks nice, and will look better with the forks polished and chips painted.
looks like someone is going to get it for less than that,although the last minute bidding fever hasn't set in yet..added to watch list anyway.
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so a few pages back somebody posted about a seller in china selling some seriously cheap team jerseys / tights / bibs ... I ordered the team rapha condor set for £36.99 and FUCK ME, they're amazing quality. I can't over-emphasise what a bargain this is for the quality...
Just buy direct from dealextreme.com save yourself a couple of quid, they sell allsorts of random stuff cycling clothes included.
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prep prep prep then take your time painting it, i know that's a pain for people who only have one bike and use it to commute. It is really the only way to do it right when doing DIY.
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Fake OEM? It can't be fake if it's OEM - THEY are making it. Just because it's the same frame Pina chooses to use doesn't make it fake. Pina made the decision to purchase an OTP Chinese made carbon frame. If that OTP Chinese frame is sold to other brands or made available that's for them to decide.
Pinarello, etc. will lose customers because they are painting something made in China and adding £2k to the price tag for their brand to be stuck on it. People will still pay for the brand name but if this is watered down due to Italian companies out-sourcing to Chinese carbon manufacturers that's the fault of the Italians not the Chinese.
Chinese setting up and taking market share where? With what? You mean selling ACTUAL Pina frames? They might get away with it in China where western companies are pretty slack at pursuing IP infringements but they'll clamp down on it quick smart if the Chinese tried to sell Pina branded frames outside their borders. China does have IP and copyright laws.
Japanese motorbike manufacturing stole their ideas from western manufacturers, really? I know bugger all about motorbike history but as far as I'm aware Honda and Kawasaki don't copy the west, they invented a better product at the expense of the failing western options - similar to their smaller, better cars taking the place of gas guzzling Aussie and US makes during the oil crisis in the 70s.
Silk as an example, really? That was 2000 years ago..
http://www.silk-road.com/artl/silkhistory.shtmlIf western companies want to keep using generic frames built in China and overcharging us for their logos then it's their own fault if we decide generic is 'good enough'.
The japanese took over the small motorbike market, because no one took them seriously...the same thing is going to happen with the bike market if we continue producing bikes in the far east rather than protecting an industry which has spent millions on R&D. Originally the japanese manufacturers copied modular manufacture techniques from the british industry. They also copied the german HOREX engine, the bmw flat engine and the revolutionary MZ two stroke engine. Yamaha and suzuki only started winning after they got hold of the mz engine design. In the end yes they did become successful because british bikes were shit..but they still copied large parts of their designs.
Pinarello charges £2k because of the price of r&d and everything else...sure the actual product might only cost 200 dollars to make, but thats not what you are paying for...next you will be telling me a car should cost the price of the materials and the labour to put it together.
Yes it is the fault of the italians outsourcing, thats why compagnolo are wise to keep their brand inside europe. Just because someone pays you to make their frames doesn't mean you should go out and sell blank ones. Chinas idea of ip and copyright is laughable, there is a reason why it is where the majority of fake products come from. You try setting up a factory knocking out fake luis vuiton handbags anywhere else in the world, you'd be shut down and sued to death in no time.
The way you are talking it is as if the chinese are the ones designing these things, they aren't...they are merely the manufacturers...who are knocking out unpainted extras on the side and selling them. Pinarellos attempt to keep costs down by outsourcing is going to come back to bite them in the arse. The dogma frame contains 7 years of research and development, but they are made in china those 7 years have to be paid for somewhere...not by knocking out oem ones.
Yes i did use silk as an example, because it was one of the last example of the chinese actually inventing something completely by themselves rather than imitating usually poorly products from other countries. Go look up a list of chinese inventions, you will see what i mean. Christ they even produce fake food, like fake rice from plastic and poison their own people with baby milk tainted to fake the protein count in tests.
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But is it such a big problem though? SRAM doesn't seem to mind, and they make all their stuff in Taiwan?
Its a massive problem! look at all the fake OEM carbonfibre frames on ebay, if they start to get a reputation for being just as good as the original issue frames then why would anyone spend the extra money to buy the real one?
Slowly but surely companies like pinarello are going to lose more and more potential customers. When your potential market is already small that's seriously bad news, I can see them regretting it in the long term. That OEM bike isn't going to pay R and D costs, it isn't going to pay for the sponsorship of the big competitions or the other advertising costs.
Plus if all the stuff is made in china, well then what's to stop a chinese company setting up and taking market share?...because after all the chinese stuff will be just as good as the campag stuff because that's where they will have learnt their trade.
You are starting to see it now with chinese motorbikes, ok the first generation are rubbish but they are honda & suzuki clones...when they finally iron out the issues they are going to dominate the market, just as the japanese did back in the 60s & 70s I think the japanese are going to live to regret having sold the chinese the old machining for their engines.
Look at the chinese throughout history and you will see that things they invented like silk they kept the secret to themselves and built a big wall. That's exactly what europe and the west should be doing with its intellectual property because the chinese have zero respect for intellectual property or copyright.
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Building a factory in Eastern Europe instead of Asia, the world's largest OEM market.
If they had built the factory in asia they'd have the market flooded with fake campag gear within months, so i can certainly see the logic of keeping the factory closer to home.
I agree with the rest of it though.
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Me receive a kicking from my neighbours.. that's a funny thought.
I may as well live in a retirement village. They'd not even hear it.you may laugh but those titanium hip replacements ensure massive leverage...never mess with a pensioner you never know which one is robocop equipped.
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i love this idea - but no
this- he only did it to save weight.
In any case I wasn't saying you won't enjoy cycling with DT shifters or retro parts -just that I don't see why you would given the choice between that and a modern group? New stuff works so much better - and its not all ugly
I read he used them because you can microadjust better with DT shifters to avoid rub, I doubt it was to save weight because there was no weight limit in the tour when he was doing it...and the saving would be negligble.
I've noticed these days a lot of people shift too much, too early, etc. Sometimes I'll pass people on relatively flat terrain and then after they are behind me I'll hear them shifting up and down and back again while I stay in the same gear. I also notice people shifting way too soon going into a slight rise and losing momentum. Really the joy of london is that its not got many massive hills in it, that's why its perfect single speed / fixie territory...with dt shifters you grind a bit harder for a bit longer. Whilst i'm sure that might be an issue if you were in a race, in the real world its not a big issue.
I do own an sti bike as well as old steel, so i can accept the advantages of it...even if i do find myself reaching for air whilst trying to find the DT levers when its been a while since riding it.
Modern stuff can look beautiful but i think it looks beautiful when kept in context, out of context it looks a bit naff...There are some exceptions where they have the right look though, mainly campy stuff like athena even the alloy centaur isn't too bad.
Anyway to each their own.
Theres one on ebay.co.uk at the moment, i was looking at it but i've decided its just a bit too small for me at 56cm and i already have one that is too small for me a 52cm. Its got the wacky seatstay cluster...i think its about a hundred. Anyway just ebay search legnano its the only one on at the moment. If you spot a 60cm+ let me know!