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That's all been done and continues to be done (although the role of cycle lanes in such a scenario will of necessity be very limited, if anything). The reasons why people are calling for action on lorries are not just about the disproportionate share that collisions between lorries and cyclists have in cyclist deaths, but also to benefit pedestrians, who are also heavily affected.
Maybe there has been some research done, and some is being done, but more research cannot hurt. Most of the research seems to be data collection on statistics with no underlying analysis of why these things are happening, and no in my view no deep research into how lorries can be made safer. There must by ways of making it much less likely for a cyclist to be hurt or killed for a truck. If there were more bars down the side of trucks or a rubber skirt down the side of it this might help, but research is needed to find new solutions and which possible solutions we already have, that could be practically implemented cheaply.I think there is a compromise that we're not taking advantage of. If the night time ban was removed and a daytime access solution like the outer London pickup points was operational then I think we'd see far less deaths. HGVs could still come in and vulnerable road users would be safer.
I completely agree with you here, It seems a good night's sleep for the many is more important that the lives of a few. This is again why I believe in research. A new EEC directive for lower noise volume for truck engines and refrigerated truck units would be a good start.My opinion is that pedestrians, cycles, buses, ambulances, fire engines, police, trucks and taxis are needed on the roads. Cycles and pedestrians are the original road users, sustainable and logical means of transport. Buses are obvious mass transit, taxis are small scale transit, others are emergency services, and trucks are needed for goods. This leaves motorcycles and cars. Motorcycles are fine as they use such little road space and have excellent visibility. Then we need to think about cars. Really how many are actually needed? How much more of the road could be better used if the roads were better divided in favour of cycles if the space cars used was taken out of the system?
Lots of calls for bans I believe comes from people who are quite rightly afraid of trucks, they make people feel uncomfortable and very vulnerable. If lorries are not safe to share the road with cycles shouldn't we first try government legislation to try to change the design of the trucks so that they are safe to share the roads with cyclists?
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I can't see a problem with doors that have windows that reach the floor of the cab.
Currently there are not many lorries that are city safe like Dennis Eagle http://www.dennis-eagle.co.uk/. So this window idea you are talking about means modifying trucks, could be an expensive or impractical situation, really this is a question for an engineer. Also a window might not really help that much.Surely the argument is that cyclists should feel safe cycling up the side of anything. Why should we have to dance around lethal lorries on our roads? That sounds like victim blaming to me.
It sounds like you are suggesting that cyclists should be immune from the highway code and using common sense.I disagree with you regarding the distribution solution. How do countries like Germany manage it? You've set your standards for cyclists pretty low.
London is easily the biggest city in Europe, with twice the population of any other city, at somewhere between 7-10 million people, depending on how it is measured. Germany and many other countries have smaller truck distribution. If we tried it here we would need to put thousands of square acres of green belt land under concrete for new distribution centres. Also it would massively increase costs of labour and traffic. I also doubt any lives would be saved as you would need up to ten small 3.5 tonne trucks as a replacement for one artic, more miles driven equals more danger.It also sounds like you've decided to pick a fight with trucks. You seem to be slavering for a general lorry ban. However the infrastructure of the UK needs trucks for its distribution. Maybe your campaign would be better arguing for more cycle lanes, education and for some actual research to be done into how cycle lanes and trucks can be cheaply and effectively modified as soon as possible to best to safeguard cyclists.
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I always thought the door should be made of a clear material so they could see. Surely that couldn't coast that much.
Is this a serious suggestion?
Most of these deaths are caused by:
- Cyclists riding up the inside of moving trucks.
- Drivers not using their mirrors.
It's that simple.
Sure, there is a bit of a blind spot as lorry cabs are so high up and the mirrors on the passenger door are so far from the driver they can hard to see out of, but any driver aware enough would be checking their mirrors sufficiently to know what is going on.
Using continental trucks for city deliveries, or using refuse vehicle style trucks as mentioned by Oliver Schick would be a cheap solution, as the driver would be much closer to the action on the curb.
Anyone who has ever seen the volume of goods going into a London supermarket before Christmas would realize what an impractical idea smaller trucks or alternative means of distribution would be.
- Cyclists riding up the inside of moving trucks.
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[U][/U]I am a former professional HGV 1 driver and a 4000-6000 mile a year cyclist. ***
Maybe there are some other ideas that could be included in your campaign:***- Put sensors and/or cameras on the doors of trucks. (Agree[U][/U])
- Use left hand drive trucks for city deliveries (This could be the simplest solution).
- Improve training for drivers.
- Weed out poor/incompetent drivers.
- Remove time pressure for all drivers.
- More regular and accurate eye tests for all age groups of drivers.
- Put sensors and/or cameras on the doors of trucks. (Agree[U][/U])
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ZMC, in your personal opinion, is it entirely possible for you to drive in London and being aware of cyclists without those extra device (such as the double sided camera you mentioned).
It is perfectly possible to drive a large goods vehicle in London safely. On most or all large vehicles there is a proximity mirror (which looks down from above the passenger window at the front wheel), and two mirrors on the passenger side, one is large and one is a smaller convex mirror to give a wide field of view, and one large one on the drivers side. A good driver with good eyesight can see out of these mirrors sufficiently to be safe provided the lighting or weather conditions are favorable. Sensors and cameras would really help, especially if the weather is bad. I was trained to check mirrors as much as I looked forward, so checking an LCD screen would not take much getting used to for a good driver. In fact most drivers, myself included, would live in fear of hurting, or worse killing or injuring anyone. It is the last thing that a professional driver would ever want to do. I would leave at least two meters when overtaking a cyclist, and I would watch them though carefully. I drove goods vehicles from 1996-2002.
Some tips for cyclists dealing with goods vehicles:***
- Some trucks below 7.5 tonnes are driven by people with car licenses, these drivers may have insufficient training or experience for their vehicle and may not be checking their mirrors as often as they should be.
- Drivers of rigid trucks up to 26 tonnes, may be working on a 'multi-drop' basis and are under time pressure or checking A-Z or using a cellphone, again may not be paying as much attention as they should. Skip and tipper drivers may also be under time pressure.
- Wet, freezing, foggy weather or early morning or late evening light can effect how much a driver can see, especially out of his/her mirrors.
- When behind a truck look directly in the truck's mirrors, you may even see the driver see you (if she/he's an aware driver). If you can't see a mirror or the driver in it, you are in a danger zone. Only pass a truck if it is stationary on the inside, if it is moving DO NOT UNDERTAKE it.
- Be aware that articulated trucks will swing out strangely on the road to go around corners. NEVER attempt to pass a turning lorry.
- Do report bad truck drivers, remember to quote their registration number through the 'well driven?' and other schemes, this helps weed out bad drivers, or those who are becoming complacent.
Some ideas for safer roads in major cities, as regards large good vehicles. Especially with growing numbers of cyclists:
- Put sensors and/or cameras on the doors of trucks.
- Use left hand drive trucks for city deliveries (right hand drive for Europe).
- Improve training for drivers.
- Weed out poor/incompetent drivers.
- Remove time pressure for all drivers.
- More regular and accurate eye tests for all age groups of drivers.
- Some trucks below 7.5 tonnes are driven by people with car licenses, these drivers may have insufficient training or experience for their vehicle and may not be checking their mirrors as often as they should be.
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Let me introduce myself, I'm a former HGV1 (articulated) driver. I used to drive professionally for major supermarkets, as well as brief spells in transport management. I am also licensed to drive other vehicles. These days I am an avid cyclist and do 4,000-6,000 miles a year, so I can clearly see both sides of this problem.
To me the problem can be sorted out by better training and pay for drivers, the reduction and or elimination of agency drivers, and a double sided camera (much like a webcam) built into the nearside door. There are mirrors that do cover the areas, but the visibility is poor. Sensors would certainly help too.
To save money, and for convenience many companies use agency drivers. This is one of the biggest problems in the industry. Good drivers have an unstable work environment and there is a high likelihood of an incompetent driver getting behind the wheel.
I think lorry bans are an impractical idea. Large goods vehicles are the only way of supplying the public with products in anything like the amounts needed.
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Give us some info and thoughts on riding in China...?
China used to be the land of bicycles, these days it is the land of car and electric bike riders. Roads are very status orientated, with cars at the top and bicycles at the bottom, most bicycles are very cheap single speed and poorly maintained. Good bikes are limited to major Taiwanese brands mostly. Mechanics are easy to find, and cheap parts. Well made parts like middleburn chain rings are unavailable. There are a few hardcore riders, however. I am impressed with the trials scene, moderately with road racing. Fairly unimpressed with their MTB riders. Decent parts can be hard to find here too. There is a developing fixed gear scene which is filtering down from Beijing.
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Hi there, originally from Kent, but live in mainland China. Thinking building new city bike, might go 9 speed or fixed, using good but old 7075 MTB frame with 26" wheels. Looking for information and thoughts about fixed wheel hubs and bike.
I have a theory that if women are statistically more likely than men to be killed or injured by a lorry then possibly air pressure is an issue, and that men being stronger are less likely to be affected. Has this been researched? If not, wouldn't this be a good subject for students doing an engineering or physics Phd thesis?