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just a quick jersey update.......Ive asked Velocio if it's ok to use the forum logo on the shirts and he says its fine......a donation to the forum will have to be forthcoming though ;o)
I've just emailed Chad (yep, real name) at Oregon to get him to give me a ballpark quote for 15 jerseys with 2 lines of lettering on, delivered....and I've also asked him if any of his previous UK clients had been hit with import tax....it's another thing to think about and budget for if we decide to go ahead.
I am a bit worried about taking responsibility for everyone's dosh, to be honest though....I reckon I would have to set up a seperate paypal account so that people could pay by gift, before sending it all off when it is complete?
If anyone wanted to do this part of it, I would be happy to relinquish the reins!
I'll wait for a reply from Chad before putting a thread in classifieds to register interest and a poll to democratically choose the design/lettering......although I want a black one with black lettering on the white band!!I have one from Oregon Cyclewear and wore it last year. The yarn is medium gauge, so it is quite thick. Last year, I was cooking in the near 40°C heat and I think it accelerated the dehydration process. Mine is black, so it may have made matters worse although funnily enough I did not get tanned at all last year. It's perfect on cooler days, but if the temperature rises, it may not be ideal. If it had full length zip, then I think it would have helped.
Also, someone mentioned Woolistic stuff being made in China; Chad's goods are also made in China, if anyone gives a toss.
And, yes, I am in for this year again. Wife and daughter have also entered this year -- got seduced by last year's scene, apparently.
Peter V, will I see you at Retro Ronde in July? I am planning to be there unless shit hits the fan at work...
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when I read back your original proposal I see that it's purely and simply a mechanism for getting money out of the hands of forumengers into Newco via LFGSS, with little real prospect of upside commensurate with the risk taken.
Yes, it is a possible mechanism to get around the concerns David expressed previously. No, I did not present a microwavable 'proposal', just some possible ingredients, one of which was a non-voting preference share, which can carry a 'coupon' with a predetermined rate of return. As I said, what you call 'proposal' is not meant to be taken literally. It's not plug and play. Of course, it is your gig, so you should cook it the way that suits you. -
I think the idea that the same person would be CEO of both LFGSS and Newco is a bit suspect, to be honest
Happens all the time. It won't raise any eyebrows so long as the commercial terms are comparable to those extended to unrelated third parties. Just an associated company operating under 'fair market' conditions.
The idea of splitting Newco out from LFGSS does raise an interesting challenge for the business concept, though: as I understand it, to be successful, David's new self would have to be able to convince David's old self to move his beloved forum of his beloved servers running his beloved code and into an entirely other system.
Yes, if he can manage to persuade himself, then the odds that he can persuade others will be better. :-) -
Thanks. Too wide...
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Could you please confirm rear width?
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Shredder, I love your ingenuity, but if we did what you suggest, some poor fuck would have to be the CEO of LFGSS. Any takers?
The scenario wasn't meant to be taken literally but just to provoke some thoughts. Anyway, David has already been doing the CEO role since day nought, so that is not an additional burden. Of course, it assumes LFGSS is already incorporated. If David has a company that he could use for the purpose, say, Kitchen Ltd., then that could also be a consideration...
On another note, whilst I appreciate the desire to focus on putting together the product, I think that each founding member should keep in mind that starting and running a new company necessarily means that each person needs to wear 12 different hats at the same time. You won't be able to do just one job in the beginning: doing just one job is a luxury you get to have when you are a profitable company of a certain size, with an army of employees running around. And, if you are one of the owner-proprietors, then don't expect to be able to do just one job EVER. Just saying.
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David, you and your colleagues have obviously put much thought into this. I would suggest that you sit down and talk this over with a third party that is familiar with capital structuring although I appreciate that you would not want to make things terribly complicated.
Your first two concerns are valid. However, they both appear to assume that there is only one way to inject capital, through voting shares in your new company. The Newco can issue non-voting pref shares, but I can appreciate that institutional investors may not want 200 pref share holders to queue up ahead of them in case Newco is liquidated. I do not think that a bond/gilt/loan/promissory note is appropriate since there is a definite obligation to repay, which may or may not happen; and your institutional investors would not want 200 creditors to get ahead of them in a liquidation.
Without knowing all the facts, I could imagine that LFGSS can be a future client of Newco rather than Newco 'owning' LFGSS. If that were to be the case, I could imagine that LFGSS can, if incorporated, issue non-voting pref shares to which members can subscribe, with the understanding that LFGSS can use the proceeds to make an unsecured loan to Newco. If carrying a debt is a problem for your institutional investors, then LFGSS could start as a shareholder of Newco (perhaps 1 share), which in turn should enable you to reclassify LFGSS's loan to Newco as a shareholder's loan which could be deemed a quasi-equity rather than real liability, in which case your institutional investors might be agreeable especially if it is treated as debt that will be settled only after, not before, the shareholders upon liquidation. Of course, all this is nought if the investors in Newco are also expecting a direct slice of LFGSS's income stream.
Furthermore, the above, under the simplest of scenarios, requires admin overhead in terms of time, effort and cost, but you don't get money for nothing, especially at a rate that is likely to be lower than what your high street bank will charge.
I do not pretend to know anything even remotely resembling the whole picture and am only shooting from the hip (Americans call it brainstorming). All that I am saying is that perhaps you should give it another thought. Any given community is built on good will, and it is obvious that there is quite a bit of good will around here. Good will takes a long time to build, which puts you way ahead of the game in many respects. However, there is also a matter of timing: the 3Fs(family friends fools) that are willing to throw money at you today may not be so willing six months from now. You never know.
On a related note, the members that want to help financially may want to feel that they extended their help specifically for this purpose rather than a vague, indirect contribution such as buying a jersey that s/he may or may not like/want or a general donation, both of which could dilute the sense of satisfaction derived from the contribution. Put another way, they don't really give a solid bragging right at the pub to say, 'yeah, I helped Velocio with his start-up' which can be a perceived currency of sorts. Of course, a jersey can be sold, or specific donations can be solicited, specifically for the benefit of Newco, but then again, I think we come back to your other point about not being a charity case.
Alright, I'll stop rambling. Good luck.
s
Stolen bike alert. My friend Stephen's Cherubim stolen today from outside Tesco on Clifton Rd W9. Frame serial number 11121. Equipped with Ultegra triple chainset. If you see it, please report to police or contact me. Thank you.
Pic #2 thanks to j808: at the time it was nicked, the bike had a pair of polished silver boxed rims rather than the ones shown in the above photo.