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I'm more aware of the tendency of late-night internet conversations to be intemperate and largely pointless! The worst of all possible worlds would be for cycle campaigners to enter Judean People's Front type arguments when there is actually broad agreement. The present provision (in London at least) fails both experts such as ourselves, who ignore all cycle infrastructure, and non-experts who either rely on flawed infrastructure and then give up, or try it out and realize it is too dangerous, or try to keep going without expertise or infrastructure and take terrible risks. Something must change. I'd be interested to see more ideas about what the change would look like.
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the first link is about separation (the subject of this thread), the second about training and competence (discussed immediately above) so you can see why I linked to them. The thing that convinced me is the realization that we should have some kind of cycle provision that minimizes interactions with motorized traffic. I say this as a Londoner who's 'proudly' played with traffic for more than 20 years, including a stint as a wild-eyed courier.
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Oliver - what an odd comment. The blog I linked to contains thousands of words about UK cycling provision as well as some very interesting and relevant pictures of towns and cities across the UK, as well as some Dutch cities.
I usually respect what you have to say but here I can only conclude you haven't looked at the blog for more than a few seconds otherwise you'd realize what you wrote doesn't make sense (or you're trying to criticize the blog but don't want to do so directly).
For instance: a long write up of the recent LCC AGM: http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2013/10/21/space-for-cycling-confirmed-as-separation-from-motor-traffic/
A detailed write up of the failures of the Broad Lane plans: http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2013/10/06/broad-lane-the-great-tfl-supertanker-ploughs-on/
Edited to add: have just noticed the reference to Oliver in the latest post ... is this an ideological thing?
Edited to add further: I'm a professional print editor so I can probably work out how to read a blog all by myself!
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I used to think separation wasn't a good idea, until I started reading this blog
http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2013/09/23/separate-to-liberate/
http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2013/09/16/the-myth-of-incompetence/
http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress.com/2012/07/10/the-physical-constraints-of-londons-streets/
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@babybat - I ride thru Tooley St / Q. Elizabeth St / Tower Bridge daily. Police were there BEFORE the incident and after. Is probably one of the standard checks, and I believe they were checking car drivers for ASL rather than bikes.
Also today saw dumper trucks being stopped by the police in some kind of organized check on Mansell Street.
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Rode past the scene earlier. Confirm what se1 said, truck heading north on bridge and turning left on queen elizabeth st. Hope rider ok. That bridge is one of worst places on my commute and neither drivers nor many cyclists play it safe
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RIP to this guy. I ride this junction every day and it's not safe.
there's a few examples here: http://aseasyasridingabike.wordpress...ndons-streets/
dunno if that's a total take down though does challenge the view of "London's narrow streets". the most worrying surely is that where roads are wide there are projects that don't do much for cycling, such as Aldgate, Blackfriars Bridge, Broad Lane