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LFGSS and Microcosm shutting down 16th March 2025 (the day before the Online Safety Act is enforced)
That's exactly my point.
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LFGSS and Microcosm shutting down 16th March 2025 (the day before the Online Safety Act is enforced)
I think you are completely out of order here and can't think why you are pushing this so hard. You speak from experience so know the effort and risk that goes into running an online community. You've spoken in great detail about the perils and pain that you have gone through. So Velocio has decided and has been pretty open that this legislation is the last straw and they are going to pack it in after 20+ years. Absolutely no-one begrudges them that decision and we are in fact all amazed that they have managed it for this long.
That's not my point at all. I support Velocio in their decision to shut down the forum.
I do not think my personal circumstance matters too much but for the record my wife and I decided that I would retire last year following the birth of our daughter. I could laugh off death threats when it was just me, we could stomach death threats when it was my wife and I because running online communities has been my passion for decades and the risk was low but now that we have our daughter, we reached the point where the risk was no longer worth it.
I understand that this Ofcom legislation is the straw that broke the camels back for Velocio. That is exactly the point I am making: this legislation is a straw and should be discussed as such, not the wrecking ball that it is being framed as. The legislation deserves discussion and critique but this legislation should not be discussed as an existential threat to the ability of independent forum operators to operate. I ask for honesty, not a lifetime commitment to run a forum.
I also do not think my view on shutting down this forum matters much either, but for the record, I think shutting down a forum instead of handing over ownership is often the right decision. Power structures put in place to fill a vacuum are very hard to get right. A forum does not need to exist forever, people can look back upon this forum fondly, frozen in time in the internet archive, people can splinter off and create their own, new forums, new communities can grow from the fertile soil that this forum leaves behind.
I am not a troll. I am a person deeply passionate about online communities with a long history. I am a person who made the same decision Velocio wants to make. I was referred to this post by a friend who knows that it is an area of interest for me. I understand that this is an emotional discussion for some people, and I understand the complicated feelings everyone has.
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LFGSS and Microcosm shutting down 16th March 2025 (the day before the Online Safety Act is enforced)
You are catastrophizing. You are describing forums as "lucky" that they haven't had bad things happen yet you are not acknowledging your own luck. How many times have you faced lawsuits for things that have happened on your forums? How many times have you been attacked in public because of things that have happened on your forums? How many times have people tried to interfere with your personal life because of things that have happened on your forums? All of these bad outcomes can (and do) happen today to forum operators, I am sure they have happened to you. And if they have happened to you already, why are you so focused on this new legislation as an existential risk? Bad things happen to people who don't operate forums, too: many internet famous people have relationships with their local police departments due to the volume of swatting, stalking, harassment and threats that anyone with a profile on the internet experiences.
Philosophical disagreement with this legislation is one thing, intellectual dishonesty about the impact is another. The other forum operators mentioned by aggi aren't reckless risk-seekers intent on orchestrating the destruction of their own life, they're pragmatists who understand this legislation is another grain of sand in the bucket of risk taken on when putting yourself in the crosshairs of nerds.
Given the choice between death threats against my family from an aggrieved and motivated person who has gone to the effort to identify me personally, or a report to Ofcom from the same aggrieved and motivated person, I will take the report to Ofcom every day of the week. Wouldn't you?
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LFGSS and Microcosm shutting down 16th March 2025 (the day before the Online Safety Act is enforced)
That's already the case today. The legislation introduces one more weapon to an already overflowing arsenal of weapons accessible by malicious actors. A motivated attacker willing to upload CSAM to a website to hypothetically trigger catastrophic consequence from Ofcom doesn't need this new legislation, they can do that today. There is already a meaningful amount of risk associated with running a website on the internet. A disgruntled troll can already cause a website operator to be killed which is a much greater existential risk than an Ofcom investigation.
I was once threatened by someone who used one of my websites, a few weeks later he was arrested because he attempted to murder a bunch of people at a school (he failed but it's the thought that counts). That's the sort of things you deal with as a person who angers nerds on the internet and that's an existential threat regardless of the ability to shield yourself from legal liability. Anyone invoking the angry, vengeful troll as an explanation for why this law is bad is probably inexperienced with real angry, vengeful trolls. An idiot weaponising poorly defined legislation that I'm protected from due to limited liability is a welcome vacation from the truly dangerous and vengeful trolls.
The reason our lives aren't ruined by trolls is not the absence of bad legislation but the absence of motivation on the part of the trolls. For every one person willing to commit an atrocity, there are millions of people who, at their worst, will write some angry words. The greatest protection we have is the disinterest most people have in revenge. The reason my life hasn't been ruined over the years by all the people who considered me an enemy because I told them off for saying bad words on an internet forum is not because Ofcom didn't have poorly thought out legislation, it's because the number of people who actually want to ruin my life is so vanishingly small and they're about as competent at life-ruining as they are abiding by forum rules.
If someone wants to destroy you using the law, they can today. If someone wants to destroy you and is willing to act outside of the law, they can today. I wish that everyone was right, that without this legislation our livelihoods are safe from the ire of angry nerds, but alas, they are not, we're no more and no less sitting ducks with this legislation.
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LFGSS and Microcosm shutting down 16th March 2025 (the day before the Online Safety Act is enforced)
What catastrophically bad outcome? What's worse than lawsuits, being accosted in public, death threats and swatting, outcomes we've all been at risk of (and experienced) long before this legislation was but a glint in the eye of an eager junior lawmaker? The limited liability afforded to me by law means legal action, whether private or government, is the least worrisome outcome when someone has a grudge against me or my websites. I am far more worried about a nerd with a grudge and my address than I am the government.
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LFGSS and Microcosm shutting down 16th March 2025 (the day before the Online Safety Act is enforced)
My intention is not to attack anyone. I have sympathy for anyone running a public service out of the goodness of their heart. I know that it is a thankless nightmare as often as it is a rewarding and nourishing experience. Anyone running an online community as an individual while concerned about risk is coo coo bananas. I could couch my thoughts with nice smelling flowery language but a blunt olfactory assault is needed to wake anyone running an online community as an individual. Run your community as an independent legal entity, keep an eye on this legislation because it's relevant to your interests, and continue on with cautious optimism that our government, which can barely do the things it wants to do, isn't going to do the things it doesn't want to do.
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LFGSS and Microcosm shutting down 16th March 2025 (the day before the Online Safety Act is enforced)
You must do away with the notion that Ofcom (or any government agency) has any interest in shutting down small websites. At worst, they are completely indifferent towards you, and at best they hold a sincere belief that small websites should be allowed to operate but find it difficult to provide legislative clarity to both small and large websites at the same time because legislating is hard. There is no evidence that Ofcom (or the government more broadly) have any interest in shutting down small websites, only the supposition based on a very cynical take that all legislation that can harm you is designed that way. There are so many easier ways to target you compared to this legislation.
The unregulated wild west web has been a breeding ground for bad things like CSAM for decades. Large companies have hidden from accountability for the conduct on their platform by shielding themselves with excuses based on "it's the internet, we can't control it, we can only do our best to regulate the content on our platforms" and as long as they are "doing their best" which is defined with hand-waving then they should be allowed to continue as-is regardless of what happens on their platform.
Ofcom want to put the boot into these platforms, they want the platforms to realise that Ofcom don't care about whether the platform is doing their "best" if their "best" is ineffective. Ofcom want platforms to realise that spending a notional amount on removing some CSAM from their platform is inexcusable when the platform is making billions of dollars. Facebook can afford to spend ten billion dollars per year on keeping their platform CSAM free. They choose not to. They choose to do their "best" because it keeps regulators happy and Facebook's conscience clear.
You may be someone who is extremely cautious about complying with the law and have serious concerns about any law that could target you, you may be someone who objects to this legislation on the basis of it being government overreach. That's fine. But to worry about this legislation as if Ofcom have one iota of interest in you and your website is being hysterical. And if you're concerned about this law because it could target you, why are you running any public service in the first place? You're a sitting duck for civil action.
If Ofcom wanted to take on small websites they have so many alternative options, by virtue of how this legislation has been written you can see that they specifically do not want to suppress small websites. For example, a much simpler implementation of this legislation would be to introduce a licensing system for running a website with heavy reporting requirements -- which would make it all but impossible to run a small website.
I, too, have run communities bigger than this one for decades, I have dealt with everything from banned members accosting me in public, death threats, lawsuits, grooming on my websites to illegal material distributed on my websites. I have written policies, taken action and engaged with law enforcement. I am sure you have done the same. The change in law does not change anything on a practical level for small websites. Look at Omegle for an example of how this law is not required to take down a website for the activities this legislation targets. Omegle was taken down by civil action, not government action.
I have no connection to illuminate tech. but it is quite easy to read between the lines. They're telling you that Ofcom have no interest in pursuing you, and that they're happy to do the basic performative compliance work on your behalf to stop the hysteria. illuminate tech. are politely saying, "you're being hysterical. If you really need some documents to make you feel comfortable with this law, we'll write them for you.".
I'm not a troll, but I've said my piece and I don't wish to outstay my welcome. I'll move on. I enjoyed the opportunity to write about my passion. Thank you. And thank you for running an independent forum for 16 years. So long, and thanks for all the fish.