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The craftsmanship on the best Italian frames surpasses the best of the Dutch I'm afraid. My Champion Mondial is a lovely frame but both my Gios Super Record and my Pinarello Montello are way ahead of it in ride quality. There is an indefinable something that makes a bike a great ride and in my long riding experience it has been Italian frames which have provided this great ride most often. This is my experience and of course, in terms of looks......
The Dutch frames I like best are Italian made! Also, campagnolo is wonderfully functional, generally very well engineered and, of course, looks great. -
Still around, this frame people
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Now, now children. They are both lovely bikes. A bike is worth, ultimately, what someone will pay for it, if a seller doesn't agree, then keep the bike. Anyone else's opinion on value is just that, an opinion, and irrelevant unless they are buying. I have a very nice aa special frame, early 90's I reckon. Lovely, but not Italian.( That should put the cat amongst the pigeons!)
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Ask away zoot.....
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Stunning frame. 531 comp tubing. A few little scratches and scrapes to paintwork, but generally in really nice order. No cracks or bent bits. All paint blemishes have clear lacquer over, a few little touch ups on the white. Gazelle branded cinelli bb shell.Gazelle pantographing everywhere! Comes with with shimano ( UN 72 I think)BB and a good stronglight headset, both fairly recent. Internal cable routing.
Seat tube 58cm c-t, 56.5cm c-c
Top tube 55.5cm c-c.
Late eighties I think, top of the range CM.
This is in Plymouth. I could ship at cost. I want £220 for it
Pretty sweeping statement, " Dutch frames are more reliable". I've never had any reliability issues with my many Italian frames. To my knowledge most Dutch frames used British or Italian steel anyway. What I do know is that Italian steel frames won far more Tour races, Giro,Vuelta than Dutch did. Some Dutch bikes are lovely, in Italy though, bikes are something beyond function and reliability. The very finest steel frames are Italian and combine build quality, aesthetics, ride quality and, of course, combined with Italian components....Speed