Mack, Phil, Paul etc Hubs with Allen bolt Fixings...

Considering some Mack Hubs for my next wheel build but concerned about being able to tighten them sufficiently in the dropouts.
So far I've only used Dura Ace on all my wheels which have solid axles and nuts so I've been able to really lean on them and never had a wheel slip.
If anyone here uses any of the above hubs or similar I'd appreciate your thoughts...
Also; although it might not look so pretty, technically is there any reason not to replace the Allen bolt and aluminium washers supplied with the hubs for good old fashioned hex bolts and steel washers?

I’ve used a Hope trials hub which has a female axle and m10(?) bolts that thread into it. They tighten with an 8mm hex wrench anyway which I think is the same as the BLB King hub uses.

Never had any problem with it in regards to staying put in the dropouts.

Never had any problem with it in regards to staying put in the dropouts.

Me neither, I've had Phils for years and never had any issue. Also have Surly hubs but haven't used them enough to really comment yet.

Yeah, I’ve got Phil’s on a couple of bikes and never had any issue with them slipping. It’s also worth considering goldtec I’ve got a couple of pairs and there just as good as the Phil’s

Thanks all for your reassurance. Pulled the trigger with Mack; now to play the waiting game...

FWIW, I have some Paul track hubs and I have had some concerns about how rounded the bolts get, there may also have been some slight creep, although barely noticeable. I've added a chain tug and I'm now a bit less worried about having to reef on an Allen key to secure them.

Mack rear hub here, no problem

Profile Racing hubs are worth a mention, solid bolt on hubs.

I find allen head bolts don’t go up as tight simply because of the tool used to tighten them.

A bit more care is needed.

Same here. They've only ever slipped when I've forgotten to do them up properly.

Ive got Phils too and they have never caused me an issue.

Yeah same, had a Mack rear hub for a few years on my bike and never had any issues. Also tried the Novatec track hubs with Allen bolts, however the smaller size bolts on those did give me some issues.

We have a Hope Tandem hub which has bolt on fixings, work a treat.

I've got a pair of Harmony Lab hubs, they use a M5 front and M6 rear bolt, no issues so far.

I have a 90s Hope tandem hub.
Solid bit of kit.

Also Mavic Piste hub - done thousands of miles on that hubset, I swapped out the Allen socket heads for pentalobe security fixings as a theft deterrent.
Always held tight.
But I was never a skidda.

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Might been a few months ago this thread by still want to leave my experience /extra info for the next visitors or troubled cyclists:

In my fgfs setup, I have 2x Kings 36H, the bolt broke during jibs and it got me pretty bolt-paranoid.
Not the fact that broke but due the fact HOW IT BROKE and is scary looking at the small circular contact area that binds the head of this bolt and it's threaded rod bit (sorry screw nerds I am not using the right terms, I am not a engineer nor a mechanic nor a bolt wizard).

So after moving one bolt from a different wheelset I have that also has 2x Kings laced, I realised that this hubs (that are 3years old VS the 1year old ones where the breakage happened) they came with different screws quality. Is a different product/make or at least they were made differently.
The most noticeable visible aspect is: the screw thread doesn't go all the way up to the head of it and also the AllenKey fitting is not really well finished inside the head of the bolt.

I rode it for a while and after researching, concluded:

Titanium bolts are a no - in case some of you think this would be an upgrade. Source: BMX forums, MTB/downhill forums - correct me if I am wrong, but for what I understand Ti bolts tent to "snap" like ice, let's say instead of have a certain level of flex? Again, I am not a eng. or bolt wizard.

This new screws' threads is american standart I was told (maybe the pitch) - makes sense maybe because they are a copy of Profile Hubs (USA)? Just assuming.

Managed to get advised in one of my bolt-hunting adventures that my place to go was Clerkenwell Screws Ltd in 109 Clerkenwell Rd, London EC1R 5BY.

I took the broken one, explained that I needed replacement, explained the application and the very knowledged man found what I needed.

They look better quality than the ones who came with the Hubs, he told me the specification of them that is something like UNF15 (if I can remember well), and also said that is a American standart, my usual 8mm fits nicely snug in the bolt head.

Paid £6 for 4 of them just to try them out...
BLB sells A PAIR for £6

(on THIS image: on the left is the broken one that came with the Hub.
ON THE RIGHT the right, 2 the new ones, one vertical and one on the table so you could see inside the head.)

They look and feel more solid.

Scaled each one of the new ones and pretty consistent weights too with MAX margin of difference of 0.03g on a scale with 0.01g sensitivity. and scaled the old ones that have been corroded and used , so doesn't matter much but some had a 0.1g difference to each other.

As you can see in the photo, they are ready to go in, greased and hope they hold ok.

Hope this info helps someone.
Any questions just shout.

-F.