Hub Snobbery?

I've just decided to build a pair of light track wheels as a lockdown project and have ordered some Novatec hubs from AliExpress.

I've generally avoided Novatec as they have a poor reputation for weatherproofing however that seems to be due to the bearing seals.

Given the bearings can be replaced (easily?) for better sealed or ceramic ones is there any other benefit in using a more expensive hub? Geared hubs have freehubs to go wrong as well but for track hubs, do the fancier hubs (Phil, Paul, Goldtec) offer more than just looks over Novatecs with upgraded bearings?

Novatec as they have a poor reputation for weatherproofing

First I've ever heard of that. There are some rare Novatech hubs with cup and cone bearings which are terrible but they mostly have sealed bearings. When they wear out just buy some SKF ones or similar.

The axles can look a bit crap with cheap washers and locknuts on display. Cheaper wheelnuts can slide or make it difficult to tension the chain easily.

Not a biggie though.

do the fancier hubs (Phil, Paul, Goldtec) offer more than just looks over Novatecs with upgraded bearings?

The failures/issues we see on hubs at the velodrome are first and foremost axles and nuts and then cog threading.

Mavic axles and nuts seem to go tits up for everyone sooner or later, other brands are susceptible to heavy handed spannering and repeated fitting and removal of the wheel as per proper track use where wheels are in and out the frame several times a session to change gears. I don’t think any brand (other than Mavic) has stuck out as being more or less susceptible to this type of failure than any other.

Cog threading issues do vary from brand to brand. Novatec/Formula etc won’t last long for regular gear changers or big wattage riders, see them with stripped/mangled threads pretty often. Mavic cog threads don’t seem to have any issues, or at least, the axles fuck up long before the cog thread has chance to! Goldtec seem to last pretty well, see a fair few older versions of them still in use. Dura Ace and Campy would be the hubs that really stand out as lasting the distance under riders who are giving them a hard time.

I’ve no idea about longevity of Phil Wood or Paul Comp for proper track use as other than Phils on one set of wheels at one of the UCI events we’ve had, I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone using them.

I guess for road riding breaking an axle would be less likely? Likewise thread stripping as as you're changing cogs less frequently?

They're standard sizes so lots of different ones fit. I'm using some integrated cone nuts and spacers from a Halo hub on mine.

Sorry, I thought you meant they were for velodrome use. Yeah, I’d think road used hubs would see very different of failure modes.

For road I’d look for something with a shielded bearings, hardware quality would be a concern since they are likely to be exposed to the elements and things like road salt so I might steer clear of the cheaper hubs.

Very useful empirical intelligence from the field! Or track rather.

I have asked Malcolm @cycleclinic to build me a rear road wheel on one of these Mackhubs. I hope the hub will be a cut above the Novatech/Formula class.

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I commuted in London for years on Formula hubs with no trouble. Bearings were replaced at some point by better quality SKF ones but the hubs themselves lasted longer than the rims they were built with.

Having run some version of novatec/formula hubs and Dura Ace hubs concurrently on different bikes the cheaper hub’s hardware corroded considerably more than on the Dura Ace. I am of course aware that part of that will be the different way I used the bike with the DA hubs versus the one with the cheaper wheels but I don’t think that accounts for it all.

I also have had a set of DA nuts on the rear of my commuter for about 5 or 6 years that are in much better nick than some of the nuts on the novatecs at work that have only been ever been used indoors.

My experience of using hubs with exposed bearings and hubs with simple shields built into the cones (ie Zenith) is that the shielded bearings have a longer life.

I’m not saying they are terrible hubs btw, just pointing out what I feel are their weaknesses.

I also think, having been told by people that have used them, that some very expensive hubs suffer those same weaknesses ie Phils with the exposed bearing thing.

I have wheels with Formula hubs and they have served well, though not subjected to all weathers. I've also had wheels with cheap-as-chips Suzue hubs that started off pretty rough but ran in quite nicely — still going strong, the current user tells me (that bike is out on semi-permanent loan). The wheelset on the costly Zipp track hubs was by far the most troublesome, prompting Condor Cycles to write to the manufacturer with their opinion that the design was fundamentally flawed.

Definately look a cut-above but at 160eur (on their website) I'd hope so.

I've commuted on a Goldtec rear for a decade with no issues, these look like they have similar bearing shielding to protect from the elements. I guess that's key to all-weather longevity.

Rather irritatingly I've just seen these (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32874752956.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.1000023.11.582f6e36xhhzST) which seem to have some bearing protection as well as still being cheap as...

I wonder if a suitably sized washer might do the same job on the unprotected ones?

Any hubs with skateboard type bearings are going to be ok. Avoid loose ball unless it is something you are going to treat well (or actually race) like DA 7600.

Then it is all about the wheel build, if that is sub par it won't make a difference what hubs you have.

In terms of snobbery, Profile Racing are the only track hubs I'll ride these days(in black..). Good looking, tough and dead easy to service.

They look pretty solid!

Looks like the FFwd track hubs are novatec derivatives with 6000 bearings https://www.ffwdshop.com/image/cache/catalog/Gear/Accessories/FFWD%20Lockring-750x750.jpg
They sell the endcaps in the spares section for anyone interested
https://www.ffwdshop.com/FFWD-GEAR/FFWD-SPARE-PARTS?product_id=270

I'll see how the wheels turn out before I bother with any.

Never seen these and now very much want a pair. U.S company? Any idea where they're made?

USA made, available in UK here.

There are a thousand different options in drillings and axels..

Also a big Profile Racing fan here!
Loads of Ti extras for the bmx stuff, might be some nice upgrades for the track stuff, maybe

Cheers, some of the colour options could be lovely with some silver rims.

I've only ever had one hub fail catastrophically, and that was a Mack Superlight hub. Mind you, it was a front hub, laced radially, and the rear is still fine - hopefully you won't have the same issue. I replaced the failed Mack hub with a Novatec one. It's been fine.

do the fancier hubs (Phil, Paul, Goldtec) offer more than just looks over Novatecs with upgraded bearings?

The White Industries hubs/cogs have the benefit that they used a splined interface between the hub and cog rather than a thread to locate them. The White Industries cogs are used on Powertap track hubs, and so far I've found they work well. It does mean a completely different hub and cog setup though.

I imagine the flange tore out?

Yep. 4 consecutive spokes. That's not something I'm going to forget for a while. 20mph impromptu involuntary endo.