Camera vs Phone (needs more bokeh)

So this is really something I'm interested in and want to document, and ideally to document over time by other people too.

There are two things here that I want to consider:

1. The best camera you have is the one that you have with you
   
2. Smartphone cameras are good enough
   
   

The simple hypothesis:

• There will be a time when phone cameras exceed the capability of cameras priced at less than the cost of the phone (even when buying 2nd hand camera equipment).
  
  

I don't actually believe that is true (it's all about the glass and light), but a lot of software developers do seem to believe that the difference can be overcome with software, so I reckon periodically documenting progress isn't a bad idea.

So the rule here is that the camera that you use to test cannot be a full DSLR, let's say that the entire camera must be comfortable in one hand, able to point and shoot within a couple of seconds, and weighs less than 1kg including glass (that's an upper limit, I expect most will weigh less)... and... the camera at the time of the test must cost less than the cost of the phone you're comparing with.

This is a simple: Are cheap cameras better than smartphones or vice versa, and when do those lines intersect and one beat the other?

For my test I give you:

• 2016 Nexus 6p (with famed camera re-implemented on the Google Pixel, uses HDR+ by default, most people prefer this camera/software than other smartphone stuff). Worth £280 on ebay
  
• 2011 Panasonic GX1 with prime 25mm f1.4 lens. Body worth £130 on eBay, lens worth £60 on eBay. Camera weighs 318g, lens 200g.
  
  

All photos in this album: https://goo.gl/photos/899XawEnjcocURsv7

Nexus 6p 12.2 MP 3024 × 4032 3.8 MB f/2 1/5000 4.67 mm ISO62

DMC-GX1 15.8 MP 4592 × 3448 7.7 MB f/2 1/4000 20 mm ISO160

Nexus 6P f/2 1/1812 4.67 mm ISO60 12.2 MP 4032 × 3024 5.8 MB

DMC-GX1 f/4 1/1000 20 mm ISO160 15.8 MP 4592 × 3448 7.1 MB

Nexus 6P f/2 1/2762 4.67 mm ISO61 12.2 MP 4032 × 3024 7.1 MB

DMC-GX1 f/10 1/320 20 mm ISO160 15.8 MP 4592 × 3448 8.9 MB

Also, most point and shoot cameras are jpeg only. Phones can shoot RAW these days...

That said, you can't overcome physics. Yeah, there are tricks you can perform with multiple cameras to imitate depth of field but it's all software.

Even for low light, phones are now better than a P&S from just a few years ago – not quite astro-photography-good but useable.

Anecdotally, I've shot landscapes on holiday with a phone (using something like VSCO etc) and a 35mm film camera, side by side.
When you're looking on a small screen there's actually very little to tell them apart but this is in perfect light, small aperture etc.

Initial results: Anything that is close enough to offer depth is better with the camera. Anything that has rich or bright colours is better with the camera.

Interestingly... that last shot is less obvious. As soon as we move from close-up to wider and fuller shots the phone starts to come a lot closer to the quality of the camera. We'd probably tell the difference between a camera and phone on the earlier shots based on only seeing a single photograph. On that last one, it's harder to instantly see the difference even with the photos side by side.

Need moar tests, with large landscape type photographs.

Anecdotally, I've shot landscapes on holiday with a phone (using something like VSCO etc) and a 35mm film camera, side by side.
When you're looking on a small screen there's actually very little to tell them apart but this is in perfect light, small aperture etc.

That's the scenario in which I suspect that the phone will rival the camera.

Also in low-light I think that the phone will probably beat most point and shoot, or the smaller detachable lens cameras.

Surely only when a phone pic wins the LFGSS weekly challenge will parity have been achieved

Windows phones are in the lead atm.

In fact the only reason i bought the (much maligned) Windows Lumia was for the camera quality

As was said right at the start, the best camera is the one you have with you:

Nice control of HDR (for a phone camera)

Though hard to get bokeh on my phone

The new phones with dual lenses knows the depth of field and you decide afterwards

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Also, most point and shoot cameras are jpeg only. Phones can shoot RAW these days...

Which matters not a bit. My photographer colleagues are very well known for the quality of their pictures and have shot in JPEG since 2015.

Yeah, for photojournalism, that's fine but if you start editing...

Well, my experiments were enough to persuade me that actually buying a new camera is probably worth it.

I think phones will continue to make huge grounds, and I think for all the time that I am not carrying a camera a phone will be good enough (as @Dammit pointed out).

But... the difference is pretty damn big, and I am going on holiday soon to somewhere I've wanted to go for decades, and I want photos from that which last a lifetime and can be viewed on future devices with the kind of joy I hope to feel at the time.

I'll be buying a proper camera, and carrying the < 1KG bulk everywhere... but it's OK, the results are worth it (and it will probably save my camera battery too).

I am going on holiday soon to somewhere I've wanted to go for decades

Xanadu? Shangrila? Valhalla?

Xanadu? Shangrila? Valhalla?

Close... Alhambra.

Phone cameras are great these days but the size limitations on the lense and sensor mean they will never be as good as proper camera. Likewise I don't believe compact cameras are different enough from phones to be worth buying these days, it's a bridge or mirrorless camera at a minimum or full DSLR. For holidays and carrying around it's definitely worth looking at getting a mirrorless and just use the stock lens for snaps and maybe buy a fancier lens if you want to take proper photos later.

Awesome!
Pictures or it didn't happen... Oh wait

David, do you want a Nikon D80 DSLR? I bought it from Teenslain a while back. Now only use my phone...

New thread time.
https://www.lfgss.com/conversations/302849/

Exactly what I do. Carry a A6000 when I want to take pics, use phone the rest of the time.

I don't know if anyone cares, but I'm loving the Sony RX100 for a complete photo boob like myself.

I need a new phone. Hadn't really considered the camera aspect of it, was just going to get whatever was cheap, probably an older generation Samsung or a Huawei. Not an apple.
What's good? Upthread ^ the windows phones get a mention.

I'd strongly recommend not getting a Windows phone.

I'm not anti-Microsoft in any way, but the phone had some major drawbacks.