How do we help inexperienced London cycle commuters?

Nodders, rusty-chain brigade, wobblers, fair weather cyclists. Call them what you like.

Summary of the "calling out bad cyclists" thread, which has recently become cluttered with holier-than-thou bleating: there are a lot more cyclists on the road at rush hour during spring/summer. Some cyclists are experienced but twats and always will be, I'm more worried about those that appear to be very inexperienced and regularly put themselves in danger that they probably aren't even aware of e.g. hugging the kerb when entirely inappropriate; squeezing up the inside of cars/buses completely oblivious to the fact they are clearly turning left; riding with headphones in (contentious); wearing a helmet...but on the back of their head so providing no protection to their face if they did crash.

Public education/training and road segregation are great projects and are possibly the long term answer, but what can you do in the moment when on the road with them? Most adults don't like being lectured to by strangers, and their negative reaction to your helpful advice might put you off doing it again, but I'm convinced that once they've calmed down, some nuggets of advice might stick. Has anyone got any tips?

tl/dr: nodders are cyclists too, how do we help them be in less danger?

Have they considered cycle training?

Maybe try and just ride with them, have a chat, subtly leading by example. Kinaethestic innit.

Have they considered 3 years of daily experience? Just carry on riding, not rljing, not fighting cabbies, not shouting and sooner or later everyone will calm down about cycling in general and people will be safe and happy wobbling along for three weeks every year in spring.

like walking around with a spliff, normalize it

If you are convinced that once they've calmed down some nuggets of advice might stick then continue to lecture.
Perhaps if they took cycling in traffic seriously they would make an effort to improve.

I suppose my question is more one of approach. For instance, a comment said over your shoulder as you accelerate past them is probably not going to work as well as riding next to them calmly for a bit and trying to have a chat, which is close to @Skülly's suggested approach ^^^

be the change you want to see

You just can't tell some people, I think someone posted on here that they tried to give advice to a lady who almost got herself killed and was told that they they were harassing her.

I was a dinghy sailing instructor in a previous life. Taught everyone from beginners to experts including racing.

I always maintained that you couldn't hope to be even moderately successful in a proper race until the sailing was second nature. Non of your conscious thought could afford to be taken up with the "how to sail" part of things as you need to use all your brain power for the "how am I going to win this race" part.

I think it is much the same for many of the "wobbly nodders". If you're having to actually think about riding the bike, too much of your brain is taken up with that to allow you focus on the "how can I navigate this road as safely as possible".

The only remedy is time on the bike (or on the boat). The more time spent riding, the better you will be at riding your bike. Also helps if your bike actually works. Decent brakes, oily chain saddle at right height all help to make the riding easier, freeing your brain to focus on the task of staying safe.

^^But you can tell some people - I warned someone about undertaking artics and had a nice chat about London cycling tactics at the next lights. I think you can read the person to see whether it is worth trying or not.

Most of the really terrible cycling / road use I see is due to impatience as much as inexperience. Can't do much to help that. Handing out Valium perhaps?

[http://www.lfgss.com/conversations/266274]

Most people are unaware because they simply do not care and I would not say its just the once a week fair weather rider either, I see just as poor actions from seasoned cyclists..

If you look already at what has been done to educate such as safeway (albeit that ended up as a revenue stream for the Met) radio and TV public information broadcasts and then the media coverage of every cycling death most people that ride in London have at some point had this information relaid to them regarding the dangers that are out there. Least not forget good old common sense.

I know it may be easy for me to say all this as I have held a motorcycle licence for 15 years, a car licence 10 years and also have PCV entitlment with current CPC plus copius amounts of cycling miles. This means that in my experience I have had no choice but to make sure I read the road ahead. Many people do not have anywhere near this experience and there are no short cuts to gain it.

Take my post re the guy that went up the inside of a bus as it was indicating to pull into a stop, He must have seen myself and another rider holding back yet as he undertook me the bus was already pulling in and the 3 foot gap he had was closing fast. I cannot see how anyone with a ounce of sense would make that move and think it was ok??

What could anyone do to educate a person out of doing such a thing??..

In the countryside some cyclists acknowledge each other, and some bomb past. In london some cyclists acknowledge traffic, some wobble. I see fewer people in London acknowledge each other. I would find it difficult to discuss anything with someone who doesn't smile back when smiled at, for example. I agree too much brain power is being used on the stuff that should be second nature, but i think the LCC is also struggling with this engaging the masses

Impatience is a massive factor...

^^ you would think that those cyclists that continue through the red light were blind to the fact that everyone else was stopped at the red.

Kill them with fire.

Crush them in nodder racing, to see them driven after you have pasted them, and to hear the lamentations of their women listening to them rant.

The impatience thing would seem to apply across London as a whole. It's been as bad while I've been tubengering as has been above ground...

But then I got told off for having my arm out stretched when indicating, asked them why they thought it was wrong and was told that a car or other road user might hit me. Totally confused by this so explained that I always shoulder check to make sure that nothing is directly behind me before indicating. They wouldn't have watched as they indicated and noticed that they never shoulder checked and put there arm down by their side which looks like they were scratching their leg.

Have they considered cycle training?

probably the perfect answer in terms of what they really need, if you posed the question in exactly that way, whilst on the street and riding, I'd expect a response of "get fucked!". It's too general and accusatory, and sounds like you're saying "get off the road n00b"

They might not know that cycle training exists.

When I first took to the open road I didn't know cycle training existed, I remember doing a road awareness thing when I was about 9 and that's about it.

In fact it was only when I joined the forum that I knew cycle training was a thing, by that point I'd already been on the road for 3 maybe 4 years.

In Holland etc don't they start teaching kids at school from a young age how to cycle? It's an attitudinal thing that needs to become in built in society. People here seem to think you don't need to think about cycling or bikes and it's second nature whereas the opposite is true.

It is a attitude where a lot of people think anything over £100 for a bike (Toys R Us/Halfords etc) is ridiculous so its not surprising that they don't give cycling enough respect . Chuck it on the floor/leave it out in the garden/drag the rusting thing out of the garage when the sun shines for a laugh. You might as well report a stolen spade to the police.