H plus son archetype longevity

Hi all,

I've just sent my rear wheel (SS commuter with rear brake) to be rebuilt and the guy rang me and said he recommends the rim (h plus son archetype) be replaced as the braking surface is worn out and building it back up would be dangerous.

It all seems a bit damn sudden as I've only done 400km on the bike (admittedly through winter). He says the wear indicator is visible but I should still replace to be safe.

Any thoughts on this, could he bullshitting me? Shall I admit defeat with the wheel set and get something tougher?

Apologies for quite a vague question, any help would be appreciated

400km or 4000km??

To be brutally honest, modern rims are often only lighter because they use a thinner braking surface, add to that winter muck + the fact hardly anyone ever bothers cleaning their rims + pads = you can fuck a rim in mere weeks if you try hard enough.

Only rims I've ever worn out have been MTB where its not really possible to stop part way down a descent, get the file and cleaning kit out and save the rim, you just get on with it. But road bikes never worn one out but I am borderline anal about cleaning rims, even mid ride if weather is bad.

Thanks Brickman

It was 400km and, yeah, I probably didn't clean them enough. I'm still surprised at the speed of wear, perhaps the wheel builder was right. Damn!

Sounds pretty ludicrous to me.

I agree croft. I think I might grab the rim back and have a proper look at it myself. They have a wear indicator but naturally I'm filled with horror stories of 'catastrophic failures' etc etc.

Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same thing really.....

Done one winter on mine and they're halfway gone, I reckon...maybe more. Granted, ridden in awful weather/conditions, barely washed and never once picked out metal/grit from the pads.

Thanks Sanddancer. I'll play safe and replace I reckon. Might see if there's owt tougher out there.....

I ride H+Son Archetypes and they are a very well built rim, so it's not that you have crap components. That being said, @BrickMan is right, its easy to tear through equipment when conditions are poor and bike services are not regular enough. Once you get grit on the brake pads and rim surface it can tear them up, then you start to get small metal fragments of brake surface in the pad which will scratch into the rim every time you brake unless you clean them out. It's one of the painful things about winter riding.

Regardless of the above, I still think 400km is very low to warrant replacement through wear. I'd advise taking a look at it yourself like you've suggested. I wouldn't worry about catastrophic failures on it under such a small amount of use.

Just my 2 cents, let us know how you get on.

Really? Damn. I hope this is bollocks from the builder. I was just going to order a couple.

Thanks Danners. I've been on the phone to him again and he's definitely erring on the side of extreme caution. He's not after a quick buck as I wouldn't be buying the rim off him anyway and he knows that.

I think his point was "if you're paying for a build and your rim is half way gone, sling a new one my way". But I was just stunned by that suggestion after such low mileage.

Hippy, they are nice rims, in fact I love the wheels. Got a feeling I'm going to be cleaning my brake pads every day next winter.

Disc brakes ftw

Get the specs from H+ on the wear limit for the rim then get him to measure. It could be there is stacks of life left in them, the builder is just duly warning you of the cost of rebuilding a rim thats maybe half way done isn't the best longer term solution (so a good guy).
Also maybe review the pad material you are using. For winter I swear by the cheaper clarks triple compound jobs (V brake block, v brake cartridge and shimano road cartridge type), they last a very decent amount of time are kind on rims and routinely less than a fiver a pair on CRC, they feel nice and firm through the lever too unlike some other winter pads

Thanks a lot BrickMan. I definitely need to keep a closer eye on the pads and cough review my cleaning/maintenance regime. Cheers for the heads up on the clarks. I've used them in the past and totally forgot that they are really good. Cheers!

Archetypes are kinda racey...I wouldn't be surprised if they wear out a lot quicker than say an Open Pro. 400km though...hmmm.

I guess you could get the build done then swap the rim yourself once you are certain it's dead.

I've found CXP33s wear super quick, too.

"I've just built up a pair of mavic A119's (basically an A319 with a single eyelet) and the brake tracks were 1.6mm thick.
by comparison my lightweight rims (H plus son archetypes) have 1.4mm tracks."

from: http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=85003

400km? That's weekly-level mileage ffs. No way are they worn out, unless you're using metal scourers instead of brake blocks.

AFAIK Archetypes have a pretty thick braking surface. Edit: just seen hippy's quote. 1.4mm is still plenty thick.

Bike shops definitely err very much on the side of caution these days. But when your reputation is on the line if a rim snaps and there's a distinct possibility of legal action if someone is hurt in our increasingly elf 'n' safety obsessed litigious culture who can blame them?

I'd say this is more about that and how quickly you can wear through rims in the right conditions than it is anything to do with archetypes.

I use one of these: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/proops-Deuxieme-Gauge-bicycle-rim-gauge-0-72mm-bike-rims-measure-tool-/111647317689 to measure rim thickness. My recollection is that anything below 0.75 of a mm is dodgy (though I believe some of the very light rims are constructed with 0.75mm as standard!). Just checked, and Jobst Brandt took some of his rims to 0.5mm and wouldn't recommend it (http://yarchive.net/bike/rim_wear.html).

Apart from the shop I shall not name who told me my rims were "OK but will need replacing in 5-600 miles time"....

When I got home I had a look at them and wondered what that funny bulge was - on closer inspection I found a 1.5" long crack in the braking surface. Nice work guys.

Would not have happened with HED Ardennes ;-)

How could that have happened; you just got them?

That was a pair of Open Pros - which I replaced with H+ rims.

I have built quite a few Archetype... the one that lasted the least was about 4,000 miles, while others did last up to 12,000. 6-7 K seems to be the average. There is no way you can wear a rim in 400 miles, unless you decide to descend the Galibier using sandpaper instead of pads, then maybe you can wear it even quicker than that

They wont be worn, it is practically impossible to wear a rim out in that distance. A rim has to have less than 1mm on the brake track before i suggest to anyone they should retire it as those last 0.2mm can go rather quickly. You will see tne rim go very concave when it worn. Id find another shop to do the rebuild they obviously want to sell you new rims.

400 klm's does seem to be a silly short lifespan. Too many factors to be sure though.
My front archetype was wearing very fast in every day commuting but I have since switched to swiss stop greens and they have slowed down the erosion. To be fair though I do about 80 miles per week in all conditions and they're still fine 6 months in.

Check if the braking surface is concave and also check if your pads are aligned properly. Pads just grabbing just the edge or hitting the actual rim surface (set too low) can destroy a rim very fast. Definitely worth checking before re-building.