Bike snobbery and road rage

I just got back from a few days in Denmark, where I go most years to see some friends who live there.

It really struck me how many of the very many people riding bikes in Copenhagen are riding cheap, crappy, Chinese style bikes , as well as the ubiquitous sit up and beg bikes. And or course, most people ride in their normal clothes, don't go very fast, and people weaving around is just one of those things you accept.

Of course, some people there ride racing bikes in full Lycra - I saw a massive club run passing through Roakilde on Sunday, about 50-60 riders all out on a lovely summers ride at a reasonable clip.

But a lot of people don't. Most people cycling in Copenhagen would get called nodders in here and people would complain about them being in the way and not being hyper proficient cyclists.

Which really reinforces something I've been thinking for a while - which is that one of the main problems in the UK is the sheer level of aggression on the roads. Cars are aggressive to everyone else, so cyclists rude aggressively, initially trying to assert their right to be on the road, but ultimately road raging on anyone who rides a bike otherwise than to their liking.

Poor road behaviour by any road user only feeds the generalised, pervasive sense of rage - we seem incapable of de-escalating. I've seen plenty of bad driving in many countries but rarely the level of aggression you see in the UK.

Removing traffic conflicts from junctions seems to help, but there's a deeper issue with the lack of civility on the roads that we need to address.

well said.

i have expressed my disdain for the word 'nodder' elsewhere on this forum and been nerged for my troubles. i suspect people that use this term and its associated sentiments would be the first ones to hurl abuse at anyone on a bike who they felt were impeding their progress should they find themselves behind the wheel of a car. It's elitist, divisive horse-shit that needs to fucking end.

No such thing as road rages, only idiot.

No one is called a nodders in Copenhagen because they dressed normal for their 3 miles commute.

well said.

i have expressed my disdain for the word 'nodder' elsewhere on this forum and been nerged for my troubles. i suspect people that use this term and its associated sentiments would be the first ones to hurl abuse at anyone on a bike who they felt were impeding their progress should they find themselves behind the wheel of a car. It's elitist, divisive horse-shit that needs to fucking end.

Sorry but I'm going to have to bite on this one. A lot of the people complaining about 'nodders' are in fact complaining about precisely the kind of impatient road (or shared path) user described above. The guy who pushes past or undertakes or goes up the pavement, scattering peds to left and right, because nothing must be allowed to impede his progress. And who no doubt drives their car in a similar fashion.

then why do the majority of people that use that word fixate upon what the rider is wearing, what kind of bike they're riding or how fit they are?

you're right, the sort of behavior you have accurately described is lamentable, however there's a perfectly serviceable word to describe those that exhibit it that doesn't rely on piss poor ad hominem and lazy stereotyping to back it up.

then why do the majority of people that use that word fixate upon what the rider is wearing, what kind of bike they're riding or how fit they are?

you're right, the sort of behavior described is lamentable, however there's a perfectly serviceable word to describe those that exhibit it that doesn't rely on ad hominem to back it up.

I always saw the focus on what they wear (which invariably mentions fluoro) as pointing up the fundamental irony of buying 'safety gear' and then riding like a sociopath

Anyway I think we can all agree on the fact three quarters of London commuters could benefit from a dose of Tramadol / session of calming Tibetan bowl gong music each morning.

❀ Sound Therapy ~ Whales Singing ~ - YouTube

Anyway I think we can all agree on the fact three quarters of London commuters could benefit from a Tibetan bowl of calming Tramadol each morning.

ftfy

Which really reinforces something I've been thinking for a while - which is that one of the main problems in the UK is the sheer level of aggression on the roads. Cars are aggressive to everyone else, so cyclists rude aggressively, initially trying to assert their right to be on the road, but ultimately road raging on anyone who rides a bike otherwise than to their liking.

We have relatively narrow, winding roads with more blind corners and brows and more traffic. Our cities are usually built more densely packed and I think this all has an effect on how we act towards each other. Dutch and Danish cities rightly put foot traffic 1st – flipping the hierarchy. And it's flipping lovely.

Removing traffic conflicts from junctions seems to help, but there's a deeper issue with the lack of civility on the roads that we need to address.

Is this not in large part because the roads are so horrible to use that everyone gets stressed and angry?

i suspect people that use this term and its associated sentiments would be the first ones to hurl abuse at anyone on a bike who they felt were impeding their progress should they find themselves behind the wheel of a car. It's elitist, divisive horse-shit that needs to fucking end.

Nope. I often refer to nodders when people are nodders and I quite happily ride around said commuter fodder with barely a thought.

I will quite happily hurl abuse at cunts in vans doing dumb shit that risks my health though.

tl;dr I disagree - we are not all one happy fucking family.

Is this not in large part because the roads are so horrible to use that everyone gets stressed and angry?

I think so. We're all just dumb bags of chem's in skin on our way to work / pub / richmondparkKOM and we do our best in the given environment.

The environment is probably the easiest part of that equation to change.

*googles Copenhagen rents – sobs *

i suspect it's also used as a claim to authenticity by the accuser - much like cockwits that go around calling people 'hipsters'.

I've been thinking about the "road rage" and cyclist on cyclist aggression for a few days since my partnew insisted on watching the complainers and road rage Britain. what strikes me most is that it seems to be culturally ingrained in us more with each generation the the individual has a right to be enraged at anyone or anything that impedes their goal. In the case of "road rage" the individuals right to get from A to B in the most convenient / quickest way. This "right" we feel seems to surpass all other considerations.
Tokyo, (as i recently mentioned in a Guardian article) is much busier its public transport, its roads, its footpaths all see more traffic than I've seen here, yet in my limited visit i saw no similar aggression transpire.Hence i am beginning to truly believe it's cultural. (that is not to say our road ways are as easy or wide as in other countries - they're clearly not.) But i wonder if our lack of infrastructure is only one part of the issue?

Tokyo commuters = ants
London commuters = cats

:-)

Cultural definitely, no such thing as "driver collides with cyclist", only "cyclist collided with vans".

I have cycled in France, Belgium, Germany and the Netherlands while on holidays and I all I can think is the strict liability and it's many years at work has changed the way people see using roads and making journeys. If you are driving it's ingrained that you will be liable and you don't take risks which is in contrast to here where it's engrained that a shifty lawyer will get you off of just about anything.

But yeah knob wranglers going to knob wrangle.

I don't quite understand the "strict liability" that campaigners are trying to encourage here in the UK. but it the perception is that under it the bigges vehicle is going to get the blame then it may be that it is one of the factors that changes road behavior.

on a side note, the road rage series completely depresses me. while it makes my partner laugh out loud.

We have strict liability for peds already in the UK, just not for cyclists.

London's peds are a fucking liability that's for sure.

This is a bit of a tangent, but bear with me (or hurl abuse).

I read a series of books a while ago that dealt with abusive relationships as one of the central themes, specifically the way in which those in a relationship justified the behaviour of their abusive partner.

Typically the abuser was "set off" by something the abusee did - the unjustifiable act of violence therefore justified by the very person to whom said act was done.

Now (bit of a jump here) I've also been reading Pistonheads a bit recently - and depressing threads pop up all the time, one yesterday was about brake testing - where one driver stamps on the brake pedal when their vehicle is in front of another in order to "punish" the driver behind.

The language is almost identical to that used in the abusive relationships- "he maybe shouldn't have [hit her/brake tested the Astra] but he was provoked - she clearly [spoke back/didn't pull into the middle lane quickly enough] etc etc".

Responsibility for (often violent) bad behaviour is ascribed to the victim. I find it beyond depressing.

Kill everyone.

I've been thinking about the "road rage" and cyclist on cyclist aggression for a few days since my partnew insisted on watching the complainers and road rage Britain. what strikes me most is that it seems to be culturally ingrained in us more with each generation the the individual has a right to be enraged at anyone or anything that impedes their goal. In the case of "road rage" the individuals right to get from A to B in the most convenient / quickest way. This "right" we feel seems to surpass all other considerations.
Tokyo, (as i recently mentioned in a Guardian article) is much busier its public transport, its roads, its footpaths all see more traffic than I've seen here, yet in my limited visit i saw no similar aggression transpire.Hence i am beginning to truly believe it's cultural. (that is not to say our road ways are as easy or wide as in other countries - they're clearly not.) But i wonder if our lack of infrastructure is only one part of the issue?

Totally agree with this. When others above mentioned Copenhagen, my thoughts turned to the various Scandinavians I met throughout Uni. The one common trait amongst them all was their chill attitude. I don't think they're genetically pre-disposed to calmness, it's just an enormous cultural faux pas to lose your shit, so everyone tries their best to stay cool and have fun. I get a similar vibe from the Japanese (although I've met far fewer IRL) it seems like losing face in public is massively embarrassing for everyone, so people are all trying hard to avoid confrontation.

In Britain we have this weird thing where we very rarely confront others in public (people talking in quiet carriages etc.) but then occasionally totally flip out after very little provocation.

Warning - Post contains massive generalisations about huge diverse populations of people

We have a culture in which speeding cameras are seen as an unfair tax on motorists. In Copenhagen, I was jaywalking across empty streets while people were waiting for the green man and giving me odd looks. In my mind, the street was empty, so why not cross? But for them, you obey the signals, and you don't feel hard done by for doing so. I think our existing infrastructure design reflects our predispositions, and that better, more interventionist design can help reign them in - but our predisposition in the UK is still to push push push, and there's a limit to how far good design can contain that.