Improvised threadless headset trouble

Greetings to the group !!

I have received the lovely Frondriest I have purchased from the forum and I am currently working on cleaning/adjusting/overhauling to my liking!

The bike seems to have an improvised headset/fork/cockpit set-up.

It has a short threaded carbon fork and it is using a quill stem adaptor with spacers to extend the fork up to the point where the stem is attached.

See pics below.

My problem is that there is a lot of play in the headset which is impossible to remove.
The quill stem adaptor does not seem to pull the system tight as it should.

Any ideas on how to address this issue? Is it a limitation of the setup??

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From what I see the problem appears to be the adaptor is being used as an extension to the fork instead of it's intended purpose to adapt an ahead stem into a quill stem for fitting into a threaded fork.

You shouldn't be using the adapter to remove play. The headset should be a regular threaded headset which you adjust to remove play and then fit the adapter with stem as you would a quill stem .. I'm sure there's some you tube stuff out there if you google which shows you what I'm trying to explain

Cheers mate !
I am more familiar with threaded headsets/forks so I know exactly what you mean!
From what I see though the fork was cut to short for fitting the top cup + nut of the threaded headset!

Since this is a 62cm frame with a long head tube there is a good chance that the carbon forks came from another shorter frame!

Any ideas ??

you've got it - fork steer tube too small.

in so far as ideas go -am not aware of any fix available.
also, 1" carbon forks are like gold dust, especially with the amount of uncut steer tube you will need for that size frame.
i might have a polite word with the seller.

a couple of thoughts

If I replace the top cup with a threaded top cup would I be able to get away with no top nut to hold it in place?? Can the quill adaptor with the spacers hold it in place, or is it bound to loosen up every now and then??

The stem is 1 1/8" shimmed which is not ideal! Are 1" stems available??

Personally .. I'd have a word with the seller and then look at getting a Columbus Minimal fork with a 1" ahead set, and doing it correctly if your hoping to keep the frame. Anything else is a bodge with safety implications. I've used shimmed stems before (a Thomson shim) and never had an issue .. the thing that would concern me after seeing the rest of the set up would be was the shim a home brew packing piece or a shim manufactured to the correct size?

That is a major bodge. The fork is clearly the wrong fork for the frame, where is the original? Was it damaged in a crash?
I would be having a very very close look at the rest of the frame for signs of bending buckling or misalignment.

The adapter does what Oswald says, and the bike is unrideable as it is, there is no way you can properly preload the headset bearings. I would be having more than a quiet word with the seller.
There was a fork for sale on here with 200mm of steerer, keep your eye on it, I see someone has dibs on it.

Cheers guys!

No other issues with the bike as far as I can see! The carbon fork was a weight saving at some point during the life of the bike.

Yes shim is home made and to small, hence stem overstretches when tightened.

In order to talk to the seller my understanding is that I will need a fork and the top cap/ starnut & bolt.

I assume that the spacers (1")/ headset (see pics above) and stem will still do!

Unfortunately no forks on the forum will do (I need 25cm + steerer if I will be lest with any height adjustment options).

My list would also include a new headset and cost to fit and remove the existing one .. If you look at pic 2 there's some damage to the bottom spacer edge like it's been forced inside the headset top cap? Also you don't know any latent damage to the headset if the seller was ridding the bike like this.

I'd probably push for a new stem and proper shim too if it's been over tightened. And remember if the replacement fork has a carbon steerer (like the aforementioned Minimal) you'll need a bung instead of a star nut .. Good luck, I'm guessing you'll be in for a fight ..

Cheers Oswald

It is very dissapointing as I though I was getting a ready to ride bike.
Used and with some scuffs here and there but nevertheless all functioning.

Unfortunately there are another two issues I have identified:

1) If you look closely in the last pic (pic 5 above) you will notice that the cable boss/stop is cracked. (I am not to fussed about the rust as it will clean out) but I am worried about the crack.

2) The top spring housing of the rear derailleur and 1 of the 8 moving cornerns of the parallelogram are cracked.

I bough the bike from a fellow LFGSS member who was selling on behalf of someone else. He has been very helpfull so far. I am hoping that we will not have to go into arguments.

I bough the bike complete €450. I know my costs (for used parts) will be more or less as follows to make the bike safe and functional:

1) Carbon Fork (1" uncut) : €100 - €150
2) Stem/headset/ top cup: €50
3) Rear derailleur (Campy record titanium): €50 (for not titanium)

I don't have the patience to wait for used parts to turn up but I guess I will have to pick up the premium for new parts!

Given I paid €450 for the complete bike, do you think I should be refunded if I was to take care of the problems myself?

the seller has knowingly sold a dangerous item - personally I'd be sending the whole sorry mess back and demanding full refund plus any postage costs

this the item in question? > https://www.lfgss.com/thread111775.html

bad trader warning...?

bad trader warning...?

No no !! Seller has been very helpful and honest so far. He gave me a full refund as soon as he found out that his normal courier would not ship to Cyprus. After my request he was able to find another courier which was more expensive and was happy to absorb the extra cost!

He explained that he was selling the bike on behalf of someone else. I think it is more a case of not inspecting the bike to enough detail. Could happen!

My final verdict though will also depend on how we work out a compromise on the above issues.

http://www.lfgss.com/thread111775.html[/URL]

Yes!

personally I'd be sending the whole sorry mess back and demanding full refund plus any postage costs

Advise appreciated. Bikes like this, in my size do not come round often. My preference is to try to work out a compromise with the seller, and then restore the bike to my liking!

Greetings to the group.

We agreed on a partial refund with the seller, so its restoration/ fixing time for the Fondriest!

I have already ordered Columbus minimal forks and Chris King headset from Planet-X bikes per the links below.

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/FOCOMINIV/columbus_minimal_vintage_monocoque_carbon_fork

http://www.planet-x-bikes.co.uk/i/q/HSCKNT/chris_king_nothreadset

The above should be coming in the post in the next couple of weeks.

In anticipation I wanted to clarify the below:

• Does the CK headset come with a puller (or just a starnut/ hence I will need to order separately)?
  
• Can I cut the carbon fork with my hacksaw or do I need special tools?
  
• To allow for enough adjustability how much steerer should I leave (i.e. sticking over the headtube)?
  
  
  

I also plan to replace outer cables/ seat post/ saddle/ stem/ bar tape/ tyres etc.

I will take the bike apart to clean/polish the frame, will try to share pictures of progress!

• you'll need a correct diameter carbon fork bung
  
• tape over the carbon, use some form of saw guide, and a fine toothed hacksaw
  
• transfer your fitting dimensions from a bike you feel good on, if not, err on the side of caution and leave lots of steerer tube showing and fill the height difference with spacers above and betlow the stem until you figure out your optimum bar reach/height
  

Cheers mate !

I tried to find an 1" bung on the internet but its proving impossible!!! Any suggestions??

Also while I have the bike in pieces is there anything I could do with the cracked cable stop/boss (other than leaving it as is and praying) without damaging the paint. For example having it welded ?? (see pic).

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you mean like this one, that I found as first google result..

have the cable stop re-brazed when you get the paint refurbished

Cheers mate,

I could not find any 1' on ebay.
I did manage to find the same one from: http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-track-bike/headsets-headset-spares-accessories-m-part-carbon-fork-expander-bung/mparhstz200

It was mentioned in on of the forum threads!

although evans is £1 cheaper :-) !

Hi all !

I was able to put some time on the Fondriest over the weekend. Did the following:

• Cleaned/ polished/ touched up the frame
  
• Degreased all parts
  
• Washed/ de stickered wheels/ degreased cassette
  
  

Now waiting for Fork (Columbus minimal), headset (Chris King), Seatpost (planet X 3d forged), stem (3t). All from Planet X.

Really disappointed @ Planet X service, it took them 5 days to figure out they were out of CK silver headsets and to replace with a black one (after my instructions).

What I learned from working on the bike:

Cassette, jockey wheels, and chair are all shimano !!! (seems to shift fine with Campy 9s, Sheldon brown seems to confirm this as well).

Frame is clean (apart from expected paint chips).

One of the chainrings is Miche (may replace in the future).

Also got a Brooks Swallow (my God it is heavy) for the bike. I bet it will be confy and will look great on the bike.

Got new cables/ bar tape etc!

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All very personal and that, but I think the Brooks will look very anachronistic: Flite Ti?

and all opinions appreciated.
I quite like this one (san marco)

I've got a perforated white Regal on my Orbit with perforated with Fizik tape: pretty classy even if I do say so myself.

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pretty classy even if I do say so myself.

+1 !

I guess this Frondriest with the carbon forks is probably on the modern side of Steel framed bikes... but I feel the Brooks swallow is a good match for modern bikes as well!

IMHO it also looks sweet on the Cervelo
http://www.lfgss.com/thread113544.html

Looks like you've been busy getting this back in order .. cranks, mechs etc look really clean. I've got to say I'm aligned Scilly Suffolk about putting Brooks on this build. However, contact points are always a personal thing, so while I have an opinion I always overlook them if the bikes not a show donkey .. and suggest you do your own thing if the Brooks suits.

Cheer mate !

I buy (used) bikes thinking that I will ride them as is...never happens...
really looking forward to rebuilding, I have high expectations from this one!

On the saddle front, I initially purchased an Arione CX (white, black logo) for this build.
Didn't like the white (as the bike is yellow/pearl and not yellow/white) so traded with the Swallow with a fellow forum member!

If I don't like it, it could end back to the forum or on one of my other bikes, possibly this one http://www.lfgss.com/thread104894-2.html

I quite fancy an all black Arione!