Donhou Build - Continental inspired

Two years of saving.

10 months of wait list.

Moments of excitement punctuated with months of forgetting anything was on order... But now the time has come. An email came through the other day telling me the tubes are ordered and I need to get the final fit details together from the fit-meister then the build begins!

So, it's Continental inspired - long rides, fast, comfortable and tough. 853, discs, Athena, Archetype, CK hubs.

Things I am not sure about are:

1. Wound Up fork - is there another disc road for out there that is going to match the wound up for practicability but not look shite?

2. Seat post/Stem/Bars - what to get??

3. Paint. So far erring on the safe side. A combination of matt black and glossy royal blue, with silver accents... boring?

4. thinking of stainless chain stays, for aesthetics as well as to mitigate chain slap chips and chinks. Thoughts?

Fit details as attached - I'm a lanky git. 6'5" and 85kg. Pics of progress and other bits and bobs coming through in due course...

... one last thing that has recently crossed my mind, anyone have any thoughts on how much a large steel 853 frame might weigh - lets call it around a 62cm for comparison? I've decided if I can make this light, I might as well try...

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mudguards?

Mudguards - Umm-ing and arr-ing at the mo.

Def having necessary braze ons for guards, racks etc.

1. Wound Up fork - is there another disc road for out there that is going to match the wound up for practicability but not look shite?
   

I'd build the frame to take a 395mm axle to crown fork, and the head tube to accept tapered forks. That allows you to choose any modern CX fork, it's only an inch longer than a road fork and you have more than enough room in your stack height to accommodate that, and it will give you mudguard clearance even with big tyres should you be moved to go off the beaten track. 3T Luteus looks nice, and at £250 cheaper than WoundUp too.

1. I think Wound-Ups are hideous myself, if you don't want mudguards, the Enve disc road/cyclocross fork is your solution. And even if you do want them, there are ways to bond eyelets onto Enves. Dammit is doing it with his Oak (http://www.lfgss.com/thread100699.html) and Firefly do it on their builds (e.g. http://bespokecycling.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/dream-winter-bikes.html). The other question you really want to ask is about tyre clearance (and thus, Enve disc road versus disc CX fork). My Donhou road only has clearance for 25mm tyres without guards and if I had my time again personally I would like the luxury of at least 28mms.

2. Tom's preferences are for Thomson kit. If you want matching everything, Ritchey, 3T, Enve... lots of options. Having gone through all of this several time, bar choice is very personal and barring seatpost adjustability, everything else is cosmetic ;)

3. Show us a mock up, it sounds non-tacky so that's a plus

4. Definitely recommend: wish I had done this for my Donhou road.

Weight wise: I'm 6' and 75 kg with a 56/57cm frame. Probably a very close bike design to yours with 853 pro team, Ultegra Di2 with internal battery (so quite heavy), Dura Ace SPD-SL pedals, Ritchey WCS Evocurve bars, Thomson X2 stem, Fizik Cyrano Carbon seatpost, San Marco Regal-E carbon railed saddle, Chris King R45 laced to Hed Belgium rims, 24 front 28 rear Sapim CXRay = 18 pounds.

So given your brakes, fork and bigger frame, maybe 1-1.5 pounds extra? Going by this list of groupset weights (http://fairwheelbikes.com/c/forums/topic/complete-group-weights/) you could claw some of that back if you were partial/amenable to SRAM Red . You'll probably feel the weight difference mainly in your head, but regardless from my experience I can pretty much guarantee you a really smooth and fast ride.

I'd build the frame to take a 395mm axle to crown fork, and the head tube to accept tapered forks. That allows you to choose any modern CX fork, it's only an inch longer than a road fork and you have more than enough room in your stack height to accommodate that, and it will give you mudguard clearance even with big tyres should you be moved to go off the beaten track. 3T Luteus looks nice, and at £250 cheaper than WoundUp too.

Tester, if I was to copy and paste your comment and send it to Tom would he be able to put what you are talking about in to practice considering the tubes are probably already in the workshop? I can't pretend that I fully understand the practical aspects of what you were suggesting but from what I do understand it seems like a good idea.

The Luteus does look nice, and given the saving over the WU if it is not perfect there will be a little left in the back pocket to experiment.

1. I think Wound-Ups are hideous myself, if you don't want mudguards, the Enve disc road/cyclocross fork is your solution. And even if you do want them, there are ways to bond eyelets onto Enves. Dammit is doing it with his Oak (http://www.lfgss.com/thread100699.html) and Firefly do it on their builds (e.g. http://bespokecycling.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/dream-winter-bikes.html). The other question you really want to ask is about tyre clearance (and thus, Enve disc road versus disc CX fork). My Donhou road only has clearance for 25mm tyres without guards and if I had my time again personally I would like the luxury of at least 28mms.

2. Tom's preferences are for Thomson kit. If you want matching everything, Ritchey, 3T, Enve... lots of options. Having gone through all of this several time, bar choice is very personal and barring seatpost adjustability, everything else is cosmetic ;)

3. Show us a mock up, it sounds non-tacky so that's a plus

4. Definitely recommend: wish I had done this for my Donhou road.

Weight wise: I'm 6' and 75 kg with a 56/57cm frame. Probably a very close bike design to yours with 853 pro team, Ultegra Di2 with internal battery (so quite heavy), Dura Ace SPD-SL pedals, Ritchey WCS Evocurve bars, Thomson X2 stem, Fizik Cyrano Carbon seatpost, San Marco Regal-E carbon railed saddle, Chris King R45 laced to Hed Belgium rims, 24 front 28 rear Sapim CXRay = 18 pounds.

So given your brakes, fork and bigger frame, maybe 1-1.5 pounds extra? Going by this list of groupset weights (http://fairwheelbikes.com/c/forums/topic/complete-group-weights/) you could claw some of that back if you were partial/amenable to SRAM Red . You'll probably feel the weight difference mainly in your head, but regardless from my experience I can pretty much guarantee you a really smooth and fast ride.

1. The ability to take 28mm would be a pref. Will look at bonding eyelets but whatever happens this has to look good. I do not want some Blue Peter badge effort, with egg cartons and glue everywhere.

2. As you say, it's cosmetic... Yet it's also ridiculously time consuming! I think I'll end up going Thompson, we'll see...

3. Mock up on its way as soon as I have.

4. Confirmed what I was thinking. Done.

Weight wise if I can keep it below 10kg I'll be very happy. As you said, it's in the head.

Great info, many thanks!

Tester, if I was to copy and paste your comment and send it to Tom would he be able to put what you are talking about in to practice considering the tubes are probably already in the workshop?

Yes, as long as no tubes have been cut yet. Compared with using a road fork, the head tube will end up a bit shorter and the down tube a bit longer and more steeply raked. May need a new head tube if you haven't already gone for one with a 44mm internal diameter.

Another disc fork option to consider is the Lynskey.

http://www.hotlines-uk.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=89254

Already eyeleted for mudguards, 397mm axle to crown, takes a standard QR skewer and will easily accept a 28mm tyre.

Looks pretty elegant and could easily be refinished. RRP £199, which is good. A lot less hassle and cost than an after-market ENVE conversion. I wish they'd just sell their forks with eyelets as an option.

For other carbon disc forks with eyelets:

There's the Kinesis DC37 (http://www.kinesisbikes.co.uk/products/forks/cross/dc37) which I know Tom has used, the Whisky No 7 Cross fork (http://www.bikerumor.com/2012/01/20/whisky-parts-co-no-7-carbon-disc-cyclocross-fork-unboxed-weighed/) and the Carbon CX Disc (http://www.carverbikes.com/comp/carbon-cx-disc-fork)

The non-eyeletted Enves are in the 450g region, the Whisky around 550g, everything else is around 650g.

i think the whisky is the same as the one i got from poison.de

http://www.poison-bikes.de/shopart/1110000301/Teile-_-mehr-Laufraeder/Gabeln/Starrgabeln/CycloCross-Carbon-Gabel-1-A-Head.html

Micenetic that Lynksey looks like it could be the one.
I Hinius's kinesis too.

Problem is I then read the last part of Hinius' post and see the weight differences and this shitty little Weight Weenie angel pops up on my shoulder saying 'buy the Enve or this bike will be shit forever.' Bastard. I need to take stock.

Tester thanks again for that little gem, gonna email Tom now.

Problem is I then read the last part of Hinius' post and see the weight differences and this shitty little Weight Weenie angel pops up on my shoulder saying 'buy the Enve or this bike will be shit forever.' Bastard. I need to take stock.

Here's a different kind of angel on your shoulder, the custom bike compromise angel:

Everyone approaches this differently, but this is a custom bike made by one of the premiere frame builders in this country, a bike that you'll own and ride for a very long time. In 3-4 years time, you won't care about the £300 price difference (and if you did, you really should be buying a cheap Chinese off the peg). What you will remember is the compromise that you made. The practical differences may only be in your head, but the doubts will nevertheless always remain with you. Obviously you have a budget, obviously you have time constraints, but unless you are really totally broke or you really can't wait, buy the best kit your heart can justify: this is your dream bike. Otherwise, you might as well use chromoloy 4130 for the tubes, right? Put the most kick-ass bike you can together and then ride it to death!

How's that for convincing? :)

^This is why I got the ENVE RD forks.

DAMMIT Dammit!!

Hinius that's the same angel in the same guise! Still you are completely right. No point in fucking around... I've come this far.

I shall report back with news.

Build the frame for the fork you want and stick something cheap and nasty in there for the time being if you're a bit short at the moment. You can use a straight 1⅛ fork in a 44mm head tube with a zero stack lower cup or a devolution crown race, so even something like a £50 Pompetamine fork will hold the front of the bike up while you save for your dream fork.

^^ also a good plan...

Ok, so after the comments above I think I'm going to go for the 44mm Head Tube and road forks.

I'm still not totally anti the Wound Ups but what I do not want is the 'gappy' look of having a narrower road tyre in a CX fork. So looks like 44mm and road fork it is. Attached and here (http://www.donhoubicycles.com/lukes-commuter/) are a couple of Donhou examples. The attachment is a 44mm HT with the enve fork and the link is a CX fork with guards. This link is Toms Continental build with CX Wound Up forks for comparison: http://www.donhoubicycles.com/sams-continental/

So now I need to decide if I need guards or not... Aesthetically I prefer the no guards look but I want the option to add them, especially as this is essentially an Audax bike. Aftermarket eyelet additions to the Enve fork seems quite above and beyond, I have not even mentioned to Tom that others are doing it. So do I go Lynskey or Whisky... The Enve will always be an option with the 44mm HT... right...?

Chain stays will now be Stainless on the drive side. Polished or brushed... Thinking brushed.

Fork options from Tom:

Kinesis DC37 or CXD
Wound Up (various)
Enve Disc Road or CX
Lynskey Road Disc (but can be thought of as a CX fork length wise)
Whisky No.7 or No.9

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Shite. Wrong attachment. The one above is my mock up (non paint mock up) any comments apart from the fact I'm a TRex.

The attachment on this post is the Donhou frame with the 44mm HT and Enve road disc fork.

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The Enve will always be an option with the 44mm HT... right...?

There are two dimension to worry about, steerer diameter and fork length. The 44mm head tube should be future proof, as it allows steerers up to 1½" with external cup headsets. Fork length is another matter - you can't really have a frame which will take a ~365mm road racing fork, which might take 700×28C at a pinch but may not like mudguards even with a 700×23C, and a ~395mm CX/Touring fork, which will take big tyres and full mudguards, and be happy with both It's decision time..

Similar to me! (if you see 'my talbot' thread) ive chosen to go with a 44mm headtube and tapered fork, I just couldn't decide between road fork, and CX fork, as I did was some decent clearance as well as already having my heart set on enve forks, it meant that it was 28C tyres absolute max or whatever I wanted with the CX fork

I decided to go with the CX forks after looking around at builds with the same, if you use the right tyres the clearances aren't ugly, and you get a comfy bike thats not massively compromised! (see jammys tonic fab thread http://www.lfgss.com/thread96610.html)

Cheers Rogan. I think those pictures might have done it for me. A much as I love the Enve road fork I'm a lanky and the extended head tube with a road fork is going to look - in my opinion - unbalanced. So, CX fork it is, the shorter HT should look better and I get the option of wider tyres and guards. Looks like I've come full circle and I'm back to the Wound Up...

Rogan those Jack Brown's on your build look awesome and tempting.

wound ups look very silly with a 44mm headtube... just saying..

Should've mentioned that the 44mm HT is out the window too... Out with the new in with the old.

(And thanks for letting me use y'all as a sounding board)

Shite. Wrong attachment. The one above is my mock up (non paint mock up) any comments apart from the fact I'm a TRex.

The attachment on this post is the Donhou frame with the 44mm HT and Enve road disc fork.

I think at forks really needs an inter grated headset. It jus makes the fork look a bit too bulky.