On-one hub forged or cnc'd and radial lacing

Hi all

I've ordered myself a silver set of 32 hole On-One large flange hubs (http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/HUOOLF/on_one_large_flangetrack_hub and am trying to work out if I can radially lace the front.

Does anyone know if these are forged or CNC'd and if they can be radially laced safely?

Cheers

I think they are forged. I have seen them laced radially but dunno if recommended.

I bought me a pair of them (36h rear, 24h front) about two years ago and laced the front hub radially with bladed spokes. Haven't had any problems with the front hub due to radial lacing even with winter riding (I live in Finland so the winters are a bit different here compared to British ones).

I guess they haven't changed the model that much. I'd say you are safe to lace your front hub radial even though you have 32 holes.

The front hub costs £15 so what's the problem anyway if it breaks, which it won't.

Thanks for the comments. I agree, Zigura, about the cost being low, but I have never known of a hub failing and I'm unsure how catastrophic it would be. ie I don' wont to eat the road.

By the way Zigura what spokes did you use? These hubs have a large spoke hole diameter, hence my other post on spoke diameters vs spoke hole. I am considering spokes that are 2 mm at the spoke hole which is 2.7 mm. Any thoughts.

Cheers

I would'nt bother radially lacing a 32 hole hub. I cant think of any manufacturers that recommend it (usually up to 24). Plus it looks silly unless its on a beach cruiser (IMHO).

32 spokes, 3x front and rear FTW.

I used some DT Swiss aero spokes (Aerolite perhaps?). I bought them from my LBS and didn't get a good look at the box. They were the first wheels I built so I had the LBS guy calculate spoke lengths and whatnot. I just gave him the hub dimensions and rim ERD and he got me the correct spokes.

A smaller diameter spoke on a larger diameter hub spoke hole affects only the correct length of the spoke. Use a spoke length calculator like EDD to get the length.

DT Swiss Comps are probably the easiest spokes to lace and true.

DT Swiss have a sharper bend than most Sapim spokes (well at least comparing aerolite with CX-ray). This would make the beding more stable. Although if your spokes are destressing enough to move in the hub drilling, you probably need more tension all round I guess.

Thanks all. My first, and only, wheel build to date was with DT Comps and seems nice and tight. There is however more tension in my spokes than my recent shop built wheel so I'm keeping an eye on the eyelets for cracks (paranoid). It's still lovely and true though after many miles.

I guess from the comments I'm OK with the DT Comps and shall calculate and order in the next few days.

Smallfurry - how do I tell if my spokes are de-stressing enough to move in the hub drilling. I assume this would be as the wheel rotates under load and would be hard to measure. Is it simply if the wheel goes out of true?

Thanks

I read somewhere, but can't find where, that excessive play at the spoke and hub interface would cause the flange spoke holes to wear and eventually lead to hub failure. I recall that excessive play could be caused by too narrow a spoke diameter.

Any thoughts.

All play and no work....

I built a set of these hubs in 2008 and built the front radially (just because it's a little lighter than 3x and already overbuilt for my weight). I didn't put huge mileage on that bike but it crashed through enough potholes around town without any issues. I did need to true it after fixed/brakeless trail bombing in Bristol's Lee Woods but then so did I.

That wheelset lives on AFAIK.

The guys at royce told me you should never lace radially.
It flexes and damages the hub shell and the rims..

The guys at royce told me you should never lace radially.
It flexes and damages the hub shell and the rims..

Yes, but that is only true with a full radial rear wheel. The front wheel doesn't have to deal with the torsional stress from the drivetrain, so radial lacing is okay and does not damage the hub shell. Flanges maybe, but not the shell. (if you're into splitting hairs: a disc brake also causes torsional stress, so a radial laced front wheel shouldn't be used with one)

If you aren't using a brake on it then there will be no issues with radial lacing, the only loading will be from the riders weight so very little to worry about. I personally would still go for 3x lacing, I have a set of wheels i need to build and i went for 3x lacing front and rear, mainly because radial looks a bit rubbish unless you have few spokes (e.g. 24 or less), and you get a stronger wheel.

Its basic trig. If 3x spokes suffer 1% longitudinal stress the effect on the local wheel radius is far less than that with radially laced spokes. So you need more tension.

Not so bad with a stiff rim, and road use. But with a low profile rim, and a bumpy ride its definitly not the best solution.

Not so bad with a stiff rim, and road use. But with a low profile rim, and a bumpy ride its definitly not the best solution.

+1
Also most manufacturers throw a clause in the warranty that basically says the warranty is void if laced radially. Even my DA 7710s has that little disclaimer.
I've always had good luck with 1x or 2x lacing patterns for front daily driver wheels.
And, just my .02- machined hub shells are much more likely to fail than forged. American Classic had a problem with that a few years back. Lots of front hub flanges failing on their track wheels

My radially laced front wheel has a radial specific tune hub. I wanted to lace it heads in for a slightly better bracing angle. But the flange is extra fat. So I could’nt get the spokes in at all in that direction. Which shows how much extra material a weight weenie brand like tune felt was needed.

+1

I hadn't considered that radial lacing might look a bit naff on a 32 hole hub. But now this has been mentioned I think I agree. I don't think I've ever seen a radial 32 spoke wheel.

Is it just a disc brake that causes torsional stress or do rim brakes do the same?

Nothing to worry about where rim brakes are concerned, its disc brakes that can cause issues. For 32h just lace it 3x and call it a day.

/\
This guy
Stress on wheels because of rim brakes is negligible. If you want a (slightly)lighter front wheel go 1x or 2x. Any cross lacing pattern will give you more lateral stiffness, while easing the up/down impacts. I run a low flange DA 7710 hub laced 1x in the front to a Dodici hoop. Built it a year ago and still never had to re-true it. But at the end of the day, whatever works for you is the right way.

I hadn't considered that radial lacing might look a bit naff on a 32 hole hub. But now this has been mentioned I think I agree. I don't think I've ever seen a radial 32 spoke wheel.

Is it just a disc brake that causes torsional stress or do rim brakes do the same?

Because of the fact most budget track hubsets only come in 32 hole drillings. A lot of hipsters radial lace them all the time. I personaly think its looks shit. Mainly because it shows the wheel is poorly designed. Which irritates a nerd like me. Also the space between drillings is a lot less on a 32hole hub. So you're stressing a weaker flange.

The question on the OP was if it's SAFE to lace the 32h On-One hub radially, not what it looks like. And I'm still willing to bet my balls that the yes, it's safe.

But yeah, I partially agree with you guys that 32 spoke radial wheels sometimes look a bit daft. The outcome still depends more on the build. For example here it looks okay:

a bigger pic here

I radially laced a 32h Miche HF to a Mavic MA40 (3x rear) and the result was pretty meh on my beater. Now the rims are laced 3x to Phil LFs and they're teh sex.

Tangential lacing is no guarantee against cracked flanges, unfortunately, although radial lacing is far worse.

If you're going to lace radially without a maker's guarantee, you need a forged hub shell and the maximum amount of metal between the spokes. This means a 28 hole hub is better than a 36 hole hub for this particular purpose, and l/f hubs are better than s/f. I would say you are reasonably safe with a Shimano hub, since these are forged (at least the reasonable quality ones are).

The On-One HF track hubs are forged I think.

Are't all hubs either forged or milled (they're definitely not milled)?