Easy to ride road bike for training and DD next year

OK, I am sure I will be opening myself to humiliation and all, but I have to be honest and say that this build is not going to rock the porn thread or the world of retro love. I am just trying to build a bike that rides nice – I want to get some road rides in and work toward besting the DD this coming year.

I did the DD last year on this bike:

Took me about 11 hours with stops, maybe nine and a half riding time – I remember working it out to 12 mph or thereabouts. Not bad, but I have to say I was not enjoying it at the 50+ mark. It was only some encouragement from some randomly met friends at the halfway house and a stiff whisky from the flask I had brought which saw me through that patch. But by the end I was loving it, sun coming up and all that.

I decided I would get a road bike and do some training this time. First port of call was the office ride to work scheme, which means Evans unfortunately. Went to the local store only to be told the list of three 700 poundish bikes that I wanted was not available until January. This year’s models all sold, next year’s not in the shop yet. My broth has a bike shop in CPH and says it is the same for him.

Against said brother’s advice I thought I would buy second had – his exact words were “Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo, don’t do it!”. I did, and that is why I find myself here.

I found when perusing Evans’ website that the bikes I liked were all steel – skinny frames just look nice dontcha think? So, I thought I could buy an old bike and just upgrade the bits I needed to as I went along and make myself a nice bike. Unfortunately I have taken some mis-steps along the way. Mainly not really being clear about what I am trying to do, and then buying stuff I don’t need, and paying too much for it. Nothing that can’t be solved by sticking what I don’t want on here and/or eBay I am sure, but embarrassing nonetheless.

Anyway, bought an Ammaco Monte Carlo. I thought it would do nicely, 700 wheels, and 4130 aircraft grade cro moly which sounded cool. It did ride nice too. Tight with no rattles. £100.

Got home, checked it over, googled this and that and it all looked different.

More…
http://s1302.beta.photobucket.com/user/andrewhorton/library/Ammaco%20then

Scratchy BB, completely worn freewheel and chain, and as broth pointed out, gappy – not a 700-specific frame. On top of that I see that 4130 ain’t nothing special, and the forks are not even that – high tensile steel.

The right thing to do from here would be get a new BB, and put a new freewheel and chain on – and keep the Suntour Hero mechs. I have the chops to sharpen it all up and badda bing, working bike for £40 more - £140 in all. Maybe a new seat too and I am done.

I didn’t do that though. I decided I wanted a new-style rear hub setup Got a new wheelset, cassette and chain. Now I am on a roll, and got new front and rear mechs and crankset. Suddenly I am in for £130 extra (got a freecycled rear mech – cheers Vince), so the bike has cost me £230, but is still a bit rubbish – imho.

More…
http://s1302.beta.photobucket.com/user/andrewhorton/library/Ammaco%20now

Where I am now, I need better brakes – but I don’t want to get anything long drop, so I can’t really go any further with the frame. And anyway, I just got a hankering for a 531 – just like my Dad used to have.

A new frame is needed, and thanks to Tel’s spot on Retrobike, I got this

It’s got a little rust where the chain stay has got slapped,

there is what looks like a broken off pump peg stuck out the back of the head tube,

and I am not sure if this label means it is all 531, or just the main tubes -

But it is a reasonable 531 frame, my size and it cost me £45. So we are off, I hope.

More photos….
http://s1302.beta.photobucket.com/user/andrewhorton/library/Ritmo%20frame

Recap: I’ve got a Raleigh Ritmo frame. I want to build it with probably new components into an easy to ride bike to train for and complete the DD in a 16mph time. I really want to go black – black seat post, stem, bars, brakes and so on. I just prefer it to chrome/silver. But the mechs and possibly crankset are unlikely to be black, looking around. I’d be interested in views on that.

Thanks to a problem with obsessive eBay purchases I have a lot of stuff I don’t need –although I do have another frame to build up, so it may get used.

Anyhow, I have black seatposts, black headsets, and some black ergo bars – so that should all go with the black thing.

I have the 2300 front and rear mechs, an eight speed freewheel and the average Shimano wheelset which are hanging on the Ammaco frame at the moment. Shifters-wise, I have the downtube friction shifters on the Ammaco, and I have some downtube indexed Shimanos.

In addition, I have a nine speed Tiagra rear mech with matching double front, along with the STI shifters to match.

And I’ve got black seats and white seats.

So what next?

531 frame, check – I will get to work dealing with the rust and paint nicks on that.

Wheels, I am going to stick with what I have got. For now.

The other stuff is all questions:

So do I use the eight speed 2300, or do I go with the Tiagra mechs?

2300? I have the freewheel, I have some downtube indexed shifters, I have a compatible chain. Stick it all together and I am ready to go. If I don’t like downtube shifting, I get some cheap 2300 brifters, and upgrade later?

Tiagra? Now, I need a new nine speed freewheel, a new chain and I have to take a chance with the eight speed double crankset that I have. Will an eight speed double work with the nine speed chain and the Tiagra front mech?

Brakes. Here it is the colour that I cannot decide on. I have a rear brake – all the Tiagra kit came from someone going fixie, so I got the rear brake as well. But it’s shiny silver. Should I get the front to match, or should I get a whole new pair of black brakes. How is it going to look each way? What bits do you do matchy matchy, and which not?

And the stem. I have some 26mm clamp bars coming from Pistofski, so I should be able to get a quill stem to fit – but do I have to go black. I think so, to match the seatpost at least?

I have to make some money back to cover all the unused stuff I will end up with. Whichever mechs, shifters and other stuff I don’t use will go back on the ‘Bay, via the forum. But what about the old frame?

I have the seat, post, bars and levers, wheels, the old mechs and shifters, so all I would need to do would be to put it all together, add a new freewheel and chain – like I should have done first time around, and then sell it on as a nice working bike.

How do other members find that goes? Will I get better return on the ‘Bay with the bits or the full bike? I’ll run it all past the forum first of course…

Oh yeah, the Ritmo's vital stats:

OLN: 125mm rear - I guess that'll bend out to 130mm or squeeze to 120mm should it be needed.
Seat tube: 58cm ctc, 60cm ctt
Top tube: 58cm
3.2kg, which is not so bad - frame, fork and headset
Gipiemme dropouts
Everything else is pretty standard, 27.2 seatpost, 68mm bottom bracket shell, 22.2 quill required.

If you want at some point I have some (rather beat-up) 2300 shifters which could do with a new home! (I also have a black triple chainset)

Whoa, that might take it one way or the other. Are the shifters 2 x 8, or 3 x 8? And is the chainset an eight speed - I mean, it is clearly a triple, but what chain is it supposed to run with?

You seem to be getting hung up on matching group set components from what I read, could I suggest having a read of this article? As it saves me typing my 2p ..

http://sheldonbrown.com/speeds.html

No, you are right, there is no need to get too hung up on that. I am familiar with that article.

So, one can use any mechs you like really, as long as the end to end reach is enough, and there are some problems with double versus triple front mechs to do with the shape... so Sheldon says.

The problem though is with the shifters and the cassettes (or the chainrings - maybe, I am not sure). If I try to use a nine speed indexed shifter with an eight speed cassette, the shifter will be moving the mech 4.34mm per step, whereas the sprockets will be 4.8mm apart. Not much, but across the whole sprocket it adds up to a while three or so mils across a whole cassetts - that means you are going to miss your change. So they do need to match.

But thanks for pointing me to the article. I had another read and I can see that I don't really need to worry about the crankset. Firstly, over two rings (I am going to run 2 x something) I doubt the 0.46mm is going to make a difference, and maybe I can deal with it using spacers on the chainrings or something and secondly the difference in tooth width is 1.8mm compared to 1.78mm - 0.02mm - truly negligible I would have thought.

You're right, should not get hung up, but I do want an easy to ride bike, so should match where it does matter.

You're best off if your going to use indexed shifters to match the cassette to the shifter eg both 9 speed .. It's possible to match the different combination but you have by setting the shifter up in the middle of the cassette so the accumulation of the error is minimised at the two ends of the cassette, even then though the shift performance will be worse as you reach the extremes. It's a bodge to keep you riding ..

For the rear derailleur you'll also need to match manufacturer Eg Shimano in you case as the cable clamp is in a different position to Campagnolo which dictates how far the mech moves for a certain cable pull from the shifter. Again there are work a rounds!

Yep, that's how I was reading it.

Whoa, that might take it one way or the other. Are the shifters 2 x 8, or 3 x 8? And is the chainset an eight speed - I mean, it is clearly a triple, but what chain is it supposed to run with?

Its a 8spd triple set up. So the levers are 8 and 3 speed and its all made to run 8 speed chain. (I also have the derailleurs)

If you want classic quill stems and nice bars Planet X are your friend.

I don't get much time to do anything, with three kids, no dedicated workshop/shed and too cold to work outside. Then I make it worse by fannying about a bit, not being too sure about what to do next.

Anyway, I am not going to renovate this Ritmo frame, not worth it. But I thought I would get any rust sealed, especially the chain slap - which is the worst part. So, painted some Kurust on that, and will prime it - paint later. At the same time, I was going to replace the headset.

Two problems with that; first I bought a 1.125" headset, so it won't fit, and second, I remember now that I need a tool to remove and install headsets. Does anyone know of any improvisations to get around that - without breaking anything? In the meantime, that job goes to the back of the queue.

Also I managed to break one of the rear wheel adjusters off. It was siezed solid, left some WD40 to soak in and tried to unscrew it, but it just broke off. Tried to twist it out from the other end and broke it off there as well. I'm not so bothered as they are only to position the wheel, they don't stop it moving against the chain pull so we can just move on without.

Not a hugely successful session overall.

Did have a bit of a decide though. I am going to use the Tiagra mechs, but use them to move the chain over a 2 x 8 set, pulled with some indexed Shimano downtube shifters. The Tiagra stuff looks nicer than the 2300 mechs, and I have Tiagra brakes, so that's all good. Maybe I will upgrade to STi brifters later, but I think for now I like the look/feel of the downtube shifters. It does mean I need a shim, as the Tiagra front mech is a 31.8 band-on and the downtube is 28.6 - if anyone has one....?

Did a stock take, and with the shim, my shopping list looks like this:

31.8 to 28.6 shim for FD
1" threaded headset, black - but not until I find somewhere/tools to remove/install
Tiagra front caliper
90mm black stem
Levers
Bar tape

In the meantime I just bid and won a set of Arabesque mechs - £20, which seems reasonable. I think they may end up on Rik Van Looy's old frame... They look pretty. Need a nice chainset now....

You don't need the specialist tool to remove/install threaded headsets, but it does make things easier. A big adjustable spanner (or a viscous-fan spanner for a 1980s Ford Cortina... everyone's got one of those, right?) will undo it, and you can drift the cups out of the frame with a long flathead screwdriver and a hammer, or a bit of pipe and a hammer (the removal tool is just a bit of flared pipe anyway, I made my own).

Reinstallation just involves knocking the cups in with a bit o' wood and judicious use of a mallet, or you could use a G-clamp and bits of wood.

Retrobike is the most reliable place for getting old geared bits. They do pop up here, too. You'll find an excellent quality (531c throughout) frame for £75-£100, but really the Raleigh Ritmo is a decent bike - with mudguard eyelets, too, which is a good thing. A 531c frame would be slightly lighter and possibly ride a little more comfortably (skinnier tubing) but it's also more expensive, more prone to rust and much more prone to denting. The Ritmo is the sensible choice!

I had thought about knocking them out with a long tool, but was a little squeamish about knocking one side at a time, that it would get jammed in - but I might give it a go. And getting it back in, I have some long threaded rod which I would try threading right through and then tightening a nut over a piece of wood at each end. But I guess a hammer is just as good.

Good idea going to retrobike for the bits. I will have a look. Do you know anymore about the Ritmo? Is it all 531 or only those main tubes?

In my experience, when ever you buy a bike 2nd hand you usually need to spend £100 more on tyres, tubes , a chain and a block.

Then there are cables, and brake blocks....

Often the best place to pick stuff up at is a jumble. The next one in London is at Herne Hill on the 1st of January

I d also suggest going for friction, 7-8 speed cassettes and not worrying too much about matching group sets....

Headsets.

Unless you have the tools then headsets are best fitted by a bike shop. I don't think you have the tools.

I had thought about knocking them out with a long tool, but was a little squeamish about knocking one side at a time, that it would get jammed in...Do you know anymore about the Ritmo? Is it all 531 or only those main tubes?

531 main tubes only, if it was 531 throughout it'd say '531 frame tubes, forks and stays' or something similar.

When you knock out the cups, just go round and tap lightly - tappy tappy tappy all the way round and it'll come out straight. The commercial tool is just a flared pipe, so you can some 22mm diameter plumbing pipe, cut a cross into one end perpendicular to the length of the pipe (like you'd cut a cross into the top of a brussels sprout), then peel the ends apart a little - push the narrow end up and pull up into the headtube until the flared end 'pops' up over the inside of the cups - knock it with a hammer and it'll push the cups out straight every time. The professional tool is steel so it lasts a little longer before it gets bent, but a length of pipe is about 3 quid and you can get two tools out of it...

A good vice will install the cups nice and straight, cheaper than the specific tool and it's a useful thing to own anyway - £20 from a car boot sale will get you one. Just don't go mad with it or you'll squish the headtube.

There's really no reason to pay a bike shop to install a threaded headset, especially a steel headset on a steel frame. A little mechanical sympathy will save you a lot of money/time. TBH there's not really anything on an older steel bike that you can't DIY with only a few specialist/home-made tools, even rear spacing and hanger alignment.

In my experience, when ever you buy a bike 2nd hand you usually need to spend £100 more on tyres, tubes , a chain and a block.

Then there are cables, and brake blocks....

Often the best place to pick stuff up at is a jumble. The next one in London is at Herne Hill on the 1st of January

I d also suggest going for friction, 7-8 speed cassettes and not worrying too much about matching group sets....

I have been riding the old bike with friction shifters for a while and did not like it very much - I can find what I want one or two cogs at a time, but I like to knock it down a few as I come into traffic lights - ready to go on green. Invariably I was getting it wrong and going crunchy crunchy when I should have been going zoom. I am going to stay with downtube, but indexed shifters. I fitted them last night.

Definitely know what you mean re. cost. Certainly cheaper to buy a whole bike. Particularly if you waste the money I have on dead ends. Hopefully eBay will come to the rescue there, I have quite a few surplus bits to get rid of...

531 main tubes only, if it was 531 throughout it'd say '531 frame tubes, forks and stays' or something similar.

That's what I thought. Which makes two of us, a quorate I would say.

A little mechanical sympathy will save you a lot of money/time.

Agreed. Off to the shop for some pipe then.

Not so many black stems out there, so had to go to eBay to get a System Ex. The first one arrived with a scratch from Dereks Cycles, but they were kind enough to replace it immediately, without even waiting for the return - indeed they are not even interested in seeing the original returned. A good trader - http://www.lfgss.com/post3295204-775.html