Has anyone ever done an Internship?

Has anyone ever done an internship and worked for free?

Or do you offer internships where you don't pay people for work, I have been recently looking for jobs and am astounded by the amount of people getting interns to work for free without even paying them the minimum wage.
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THIS IS ILLEGAL**

In the profession I work in low pay comes with the territory but internships are part of this perpetuating cycle that no one seems to be able to break!

It also seems the more success the company the more likely they appear to abuse interns!

Just wanted other peoples opinions on this, it's really fcuked me off tonight!

Hey! Here are some of my rambling thoughts on the subject. Well I have a more positive experience. I did an internship this last year, and I've got a job out of it. It was for a charity, which means that it can count as volunteering, and thus you aren't required to be paid minimum wage. I was also doing a Master's full-time, and was able to get academic credit for doing the internship, which would also exclude me from minimum wage legislation. I was paid lunch and travel expenses.

They made a real effort to teach me as many skills as possible and give me experience in all the areas they could, specifically guided me, asked me about what I needed to know and helped me with stuff I would need with jobs in the future. I liked it so much I ended up doing it (part-time) for six months, instead of the original three. I really felt that they valued the work I did, and it was interesting and they were friendly and treated me as an equal not like a slave. And I was never asked to make the tea or do the photocopying or anything.

Near the end of the internship, I was made aware that a paid position might be opening up at the charity, and they asked me if I wanted to be considered for it. I did, and I'll be starting there soon. The job I'll be starting at is not quite in the exact same field, and it isn't an entry-level role, so there's no way I would have got it without the internship.

I really apologize for replying to your negative experience with such a boastful post, but I thought it was important to hear a positive experience as you do hear so many bad experiences. I also know of somebody else on my course who had a very similar experience to mine, so it does happen!

(I am in general very against the widespread use of unpaid internships, as I believe it discriminates against people who don't have the means or resources to support themselves whilst they're doing it. I was fortunate enough to have a parent living in London who I could scrounge off, and I've had to learn to live cheaply. I do feel bad that my taking an unpaid internship has helped to perpetuate this system, but I am not at a stage in my career where I can afford to turn down good opportunities for the sake of principle, even more than I may already have by choosing to work in the voluntary sector. I would also exclude charities from the criticism of unpaid internships, as they are struggling enough as it is, and the practice of volunteering for charities is essential to how they work.)

Great reply, I think in the case of charities they are acceptable and clearly your internship as been beneficial to you and they actually taught you and it is clear from what you have written that they were aware that you needed to get things out of what you put in.

This is how an internship should be.

Thanks for reviving my faith that there are good internships out there.

However an internship like this is surely illegal?

How can a company advertise so blatantly for free labour, surely there is a body you can report illegal internships to?

It looks bad, they don't even give a length for the internship do they? And it's full-time? So it's potentially forever, and they dangle the idea of a paid job in front of you. I was actually told at the beginning of mine that they definitely didn't want to give the impression that it might lead to a paid role, it was just a voluntary thing, part-time for three months. So at least I knew where I stood.

Also I don't think there is any political will to clamp down on unpaid internships, despite a few politicians talking about it recently. I happen to know a couple of people doing unpaid internships for MPs, so if the parties haven't even forced their own MPs to stop it, they won't be prosecuting people any time soon. :(

There's a lot of information here:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/TheNationalMinimumWage/DG_198089

and here:
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/TheNationalMinimumWage/DG_10027201

about internships and the minimum wage, and yeah, I can't see how that internship you linked to meets any of the criteria for not having to pay minimum wage.

Also, I think a lot of what makes it a good or a bad internship can depend on your manager. Everyone at the place I worked at was nice, but I know for sure that it wouldn't have been as positive and helpful an experience if I had been working for some of the other people there compared to working for my manager.

If your manager understands that the idea of an internship is to exchange work for experience, skills and development, and they are committed to helping you gain those, then you should be alright. But if your manager has just heard that you can get well-qualified young people to do your work for free, then it's gonna suck.

I'm pretty sure this applies to paid jobs too though, you can get lots of good development etc if your boss is interested in doing that, or you can stagnate and learn nothing if they aren't.

Are you looking at going into design then? I think some industries are worse than others. In general the harder the industry is to get into, the more young well-qualified people trying desperately to get work, even for free, the more these internships will become completely standard. If it was me in charge I'd either crack down, or tolerate it but regulate it properly with some sort of national scheme, the current system is a mess.

I am already in design, just I have been job hunting recently and coming across an increasing amount of internships which are detriment to the profession I am in!

Do you have some sort of trade association / industry body? British Association of Designers (I'm making it up), that sort of thing? It could be worth writing to their policy/research/comms etc people, asking them to look into the use of unpaid interns in design, raising concerns that it brings the profession into disrepute, causes all sorts of other harms etc. See if they can draw up a policy and communicate it to their members. This will probably count for a lot more if you're already in design not just an intern yourself!

I would be interested to know what older designers think. Is this practice just becoming more visible due to the nature of job advertisements on the internet?
There is clearly no spare money in design (or many other sectors) at the moment, and it would be interesting to know if this has happened during other recessions, but is only obvious now as its that much more visible?

I'm a graphic designer and did the whole internship thing. It was at a small studio that wouldn't be able to afford more than three designers anyway but there were four of us interns. I felt a bit ambivalent about that.

The chap who ran the studio was nice though and he did recommend me to the place where I work now which would have never happened otherwise, so it did pay off.

Working five days a week at the studio and then weekends at the bike shop for three months solid was tough though. I don't have rich parents and still had to pay the rent so it was a struggle and totally exhausting.

I still think it perpetuates keeping middle-class people in the industry. Maybe not on purpose but most interns (especially long-term ones) need to have someone paying for them.
Its a shit state of affairs but there are so many attitudes that would need to change in order to break the cycle.

I'm not enthusiastic about internships. But the acceptable version should not be just an unpaid job - you should have more freedom to see more of what happens in the place you work (shadowing other people, going to meetings, site visits etc) without being expected to be productive for the business all the time. Also, generally, you should get to take days/mornings/afternoons off for stuff at short notice if it benefits you, although not taking the piss is also good for you. They should never be long-term. I also feel that once you reach a certain threshold (graduation, for example), you should get paid. Internships are just about ok if you're not yet a graduate, I've heard of people who are fully qualified being offered unpaid work. Fucking bollocks.

Great reply, I think in the case of charities they are acceptable
Why? Charities are business too - they're only exempt from certain taxes, not from good practice.

If you don't want internships to exist. Don't apply for them.

I wouldn't work for free. Fuck that for a joke.

I did three, they covered my travel and lunch, I'm cool with that, it's harsh if you can't afford it. Dave's Big Society Government should introduce a formalised work placement scheme, but then I don't really think they give enough of a fuck.

Not sure what it's like in other games but in design your application for a job probably wouldn't be taken as seriously if you lacked work placements.

^ this.

I was a graduate when I did mine and already had a few freelance jobs under my belt. An old family friend from Paris who works in advertising was disgusted by it and basically said that shit wouldn't stand over there and that it devalues the industry. I kind of agreed with him on that.

Its mainly a design industry attitude - a mate who's still studying is currently interning at a bank and is getting payed more than I am.

I'm not enthusiastic about internships. But the acceptable version should not be just an unpaid job - you should have more freedom to see more of what happens in the place you work (shadowing other people, going to meetings, site visits etc) without being expected to be productive for the business all the time. Also, generally, you should get to take days/mornings/afternoons off for stuff at short notice if it benefits you, although not taking the piss is also good for you. They should never be long-term. I also feel that once you reach a certain threshold (graduation, for example), you should get paid. Internships are just about ok if you're not yet a graduate, I've heard of people who are fully qualified being offered unpaid work. Fucking bollocks.

This is exactly what my industrial design internship is like - although I'm an undergrad and I've managed to do a couple of small paid ID contracts before. What annoys me is that universities know that work experience is vital for getting a job in the design industry, but they don't make any financial allowances for students who can't afford it - only the rich kids can do unpaid work. I'm supposed to be getting petrol money although I'm not sure when I'll get it, and I had to buy a car and pay full rent on my student let over the summer, plus bills and food etc - it's probably cost me 2-3 grand in total. Three grand for the prerequisite experience to get a job as an industrial designer, which isn't a particularly well-paid profession (not until you're in a very senior position/start your own company, at least) - it's a pretty terrible situation, really.

A graduate friend of mine did an unpaid graphic design internship for three months, which was extended to six months, then when their job was finished they let him go - not a penny for it, let alone the offer of a job.

I run a not-for-profit and take on interns, on the following conditions: -

The work musn't be core to what we do. If it is (and that can be difficult to define), we pay people to do it.
We do not insist that the internship is full-time, allowing the intern to work elsewhere
The internship is time-limited, usually six weeks
There has to be clear learning and development for the intern
We actively help them find work within our industry, and are successful more often than not (and have hired interns in the past - two work for us now)
We pay for lunch and all travel costs

Why? Charities are business too - they're only exempt from certain taxes, not from good practice.

In my experience, the reasons people volunteer for charities are often very different to the reasons people become interns. Both are open to exploitation.

As part of my government approved placement formalisation scheme, the work must be core to what the business does. I worked on live projects but I've heard of people making coffee and sorting out book shelves for a month.

Such an interesting and frustrating subject...
First I have to make is about a comment made in the OP about internships (when unpaid) are illegal, this is not true. Not that I am saying this is fair, but there are guidelines to what an internship consists of and not law. And even then these guidelines will change from company to company.
The guidelines state if an intern is unpaid then he/she is actually a volunteers and came and go as he/she pleases. These guideline then change when expenses are covered and then change again when minimum wage is introduced.

I did several internships over the course of a year after graduating and my latest led to me getting a job which I have been in for a year and now have an intern helping me out. I believe my knowledge of being an intern not so long ago helps me manage her needs as a growing professional.

I personally never interned for a company if they didn't pay expenses and if I had to intern again I would stick to this rule. It's easy to see working for free as a joke but it can pay off.

I interned in New York and the company paid my rent (this was 2 years ago in the height of recession) and in the same building was NYLON magazine. While talking to girls outside on a cigarette break I found out Nylon only had 4 full time members of staff (an international magazine!) and all other work was carried out by interns unpaid. One girl had been interning for 4 years waiting for a position to open up! MUG!!

I would be interested to know what older designers think. Is this practice just becoming more visible due to the nature of job advertisements on the internet?
There is clearly no spare money in design (or many other sectors) at the moment, and it would be interesting to know if this has happened during other recessions, but is only obvious now as its that much more visible?

Fuck internshits, fuck the fuckers who offer them and if you are stupid enough to gain experience whilst being fucked then you're a stupid fucker because when your time is up, they will bring the next wet-behind-the-ears fooker in to be fooked whilst you are on the dole.

Dave Cameron's "Big Society" can kiss my ass.

Twice.

...if you are stupid enough to gain experience whilst being fucked then you're a stupid fucker because when your time is up, they will bring the next wet-behind-the-ears fooker in to be fooked whilst you are on the dole.

Or they might employ you...

The culture of internships has fuck all to do with the Tories and Has been around since quite a bit before 2010. I still want David Cameron to die in a fire but this has very little to do with him, if anything, its a new labour legacy.

Like has been mentioned, in some industries, its the only way in so calling people fuckers for doing it is a bit off. I wouldn't dream of interning for most jobs anyway.