3v3 vs New Format/Bench Minor

John H - Moved this out of the tournament thread. See original LOBP discussion here:

http://leagueofbikepolo.com/forum/tournaments/2011/11/09/going-forward-bench-vs-3v3

Last year I thought 5 is the perfect number of players for this, but the trend with New Format and the Regional Bench Minor seems to be for 6-10. I'd still really like to see 5 player teams though.

New format = bench minor? Right?

#outoftheloop

Sort of yes.

See http://mistermenace.de/poloupgrade.pdf

Thanks, John.

Blah, blah, blah ... long live 3v3 polo!

He does have a valid point though, about Swiss being a compromise.

As an organiser 3v3 does create a lot of problems, that New Format would solve.

I'm not saying I agree with it though.

And his point about making teams city based, making it easier to attract sponsers and fans (If you assume for a minute that's something desirable). It would be much easier to get fans of the North East London Phoenixes than of Cosmic (or any other 3v3 team).

But I think it's also designed to fix US problems that we don't really have. We don't have regional qualifiers, and we don't have a huge amount of scenes.

The main problem being that New Format is less fun to play in and is boring to watch (because of length).

Why is it less fun to play, and why does the length make it more boring to watch?

Would basketball be more fun if it was just 5 guys playing non stop for 15 minutes?

Not disagreeing, just starting debate.

New Format is obviously "the future" if bike polo is ever to become a "proper sport"... why people are rushing to become a "proper sport" right now is beyond me though: we have a good thing going, etc.

10 v 10 massive courts

Potentially not the right place to talk about it, but the courts we scoped out for a tournament in Birmingham were easily big enough for 4 v 4, and potentially 5 v 5. We didn't measure them, but I'd guess more than 40 x 20m.

It would be carnage..

New Format is obviously "the future" if bike polo is ever to become a "proper sport"... why people are rushing to become a "proper sport" right now is beyond me though: we have a good thing going, etc.

Maybe people want to get paid to play polo? And to get paid it needs to be a "proper sport"

Why is it less fun to play, and why does the length make it more boring to watch?

Would basketball be more fun if it was just 5 guys playing non stop for 15 minutes?

Not disagreeing, just starting debate.

Playing the whole game is much more fun. Short, intense games are fun to watch, long games, with a tendency to be unevenly matched, are boring.

New Format is obviously "the future" if bike polo is ever to become a "proper sport"

Bike polo is a proper sport. The future is now.

Maybe people want to get paid to play polo?

You're not getting paid to play polo?

Ha!

2012 is all about super sweet hook-ups...

It would be carnage..

disagree.

bigger courts and 5 v 5 is the future.

more tactics/strategies, i remember when we first played 4 v 4 at mitch, years ago, it WAS carnage, then we tried it just before the LII and it was fine.. now that people have the goalie/d/mid/striker thing down a bit more.

I thought 5v5 meant 3 on court, two off court, rolling subs, BM style...?

Future of sport mid-term, for me, is 5 man team, 20 min game, 3 on court, rolling subs. would be awesome.

3v3 less than 12 minute game is so stupid. First to 5? Oh come on.

Agree to disagree! What max said..

5 man teams awesome rolling subs

Personally I think 30 mins for 5 man teams, but otherwise I agree with you spoons.

4v4 and 5v5 on court would also be interesting to see, but would need huge courts.

I meant 20 minute minimum. Get fit, polo is a sport.

We only played one game 4 v 4, but it was actually okay. It would totally change the dynamic and I reckon promote positional play (defensive/attacking players). 3 v 3 on the large courts felt very end to end, which promoted double/triple goalie setups and waiting for the break. We've never played there before though, so I'm sure people could adapt.

New format does not require an abolition of 3v3 tournaments, although I do think it would be better if the New Format was used more often, particularly if the tournament is a major one.

This is how I see it...

Negatives to the new format:

1. It would make the game long / boring
   x. I disagree, I think it would make the game more interesting and actually allow for dynamic and tactics to be employed mid game.
   The game would be better to watch precisely because it would be longer.

2. Games would be less equal.
   x. Because of the length of the games any inequalities will indeed become more apparent, however, this does not mean 3v3 games are in any way more balanced, just that it is easier to ignore disparities.

3. Less fun as some may get less court time
   Again this is a problem still relevant in 3v3, as some players get less ball time.
   But generally speaking most squads should be of fairly equal ability (as they are in 3v3), giving no real reason for any team to have a dedicated Bench Warmer, especially if teams are in the 6-10 range but are allowed to use a minimum of 5.

4. Harder for small scenes to get a team together and practice.
   x. Small scenes would be able to get a team together, as it takes 6 to play polo anyway. New format may also encourage smaller scenes to play other nearby scenes more frequently to practice, which imo would raise the general standard of play in a country.

5. Harder for a team line up to be regular when traveling.
   x. This may be a difficulty, particularly at the start, but say the team needs to get a sub in, at least the whole team’s dynamic is less affected. i.e. changing 1/5 of your team as opposed to changing 1/3.

6. Controversy within teams over court time.
   x. If each team respects the authority of an elected playing captain, then this should not be an issue.

I like the idea of 5v5 but am also open to prospects of even larger teams.
Having larger teams means less teams in total, which helps to make tournaments easier to run due to needing less courts.
It also means games can be longer, which as mentioned, means different team dynamics can be developed and moreover that games can be more fair, not just based on ten minutes.
It would also be good to see polo be a bit more physically demanding.

I am not so bothered with seeing polo become a more acceptable / official sport, but I can see how a more professional public image can help polo survive beyond another decade.

Sorry for the long post.

Meh, I'll be dead in another decade...