Cars, good or bad?

We interact with cars and their drivers daily some people think they are the bane of society, and reason for urban decay. Some people love them and some need them for basic needs (My mother had MS and relied on a car for getting places that were to far for her mobility buggy) or for work.

While this is not a black and white question it would be interesting to hear people's attitude to them.

There is a talk at the tent city university at St Paul's on 2nd of Feb. 'The case against the car'

My view is that cars can be good for some things but many trips people make in them are unnecessary and could and should be done more sustainably. As a society we a geared to encourage people to drive unnecessarily perhaps due to the misguided view that its good for the economy

There's nothing wrong with cars, in moderation.
I'll do the week's shop, lob it all in the boot, pootle off home. Round trip of three miles. Then I don't really drive until the week after.

The missus drives to work every day, and uses the car almost every time she leaves the house.
It's that excessive usage that causes problems. I like to think that my minimal usage offsets her lazy arse attitude, to an extent.

Burn her car.

She may get revenge

Having a motor and using it responsibly is an OK thing. By responsibly I would say that if the Wife and I wanted to go and visit her mother in Woking for example, i would always drive rather than take the train for a few reasons.
If there are 2 of us going, its cheaper to drive.
We can take luggage and stay longer.
We are not at the mercy of the train companies
We can arrive / leave as we please
We are independant once we are there (well, we would be if we took bikes too, but the A roads areound those parts are busy and fast. The Wifey isn't too keen on riding on them)

If I'm off to my mates in Stokey, I'll always ride. Makes sense as we can have a drink, stay longer, not restricted by parking spaces, can stick the bikes in the back garden etc etc etc...Plus riding beats driving hands down and you can do skidz.

All about the balance innnit.

I think that I read somewhere (it was on the internet, so it must be true right?) that 83% of bicycle owners also own a car, compared to 81% of non bicycle owners...

Just putting it out there.

^why?
Style?
Cuteness?
Rust quotient?
Miles per gallon?

^
No.

Because it'll kill you.

Christine? '58 Plymouth Fury?

I like the boot space you get from an Impala, personally.

Good for bikes and such...

"tent city university" ffs.

^
No.

Because it'll kill you.

Christine? '58 Plymouth Fury?

Of course. Duh!!!

(BTW if this thread gets all 'car appreciation' Hippy'll merge it)

"tent city university" ffs.

Been to some interesting talks there including the radical economist Richard Murphy. Proff Rachel Aldred is speaking about cars on Thurdsay. She's overseen the Bicycling Cultures project http://cyclingcultures.org.uk/ and should be worth listening to.
Want to come along Thursday BQ?

I like the boot space you get from an Impala, personally.

Good for bikes and such...

....and driving bodies to the desert....

Cars are fine. I like cars and although I haven't owned one for over three years, I have owned plenty before that and I'll probably own a car again.

The problem is, as always, people.

People drive far too much on journeys that really don't require it in cars that are totally unsuitable for it.

Some of it comes down to laziness, the perceived social standing that comes with not using public transport and the ingrained attitude that people have the right to drive and are going to bloody well use it whilst driving the biggest thing they can afford.

Been to some interesting talks there including the radical economist Richard Murphy. Proff Rachel Aldred is speaking about cars on Thurdsay. She's overseen the Bicycling Cultures project http://cyclingcultures.org.uk/ and should be worth listening to.
Want to come along Thursday BQ?

Both interesting people who make entertaining and compelling arguments, but I really can't get on with talks and lectures. I haven't been to one since a good while before I even left university. Dyspraxia thing I suppose, but I prefer to read than to listen. I barely listen to radio these days for a similar reason.

Regardless of that I demand to see their Royal Charter before I will believe they are a university.

Lazy, ignorant, impatient folks who lack empathy and have a very narrow global view are a problem behind the wheel of a car. Everyone else is fine. Cars are useful. They can be liberating and empowering and are certainly not at fault for the demise of the world as we know it (we - the population are taking care of that in so many ways it would be very wrong to blame the automobile).

Guns don't kill people - rappers do.

"tent city university" ffs.

Where's that then?

Cars are fine. I like cars and although I haven't owned one for over three years, I have owned plenty before that and I'll probably own a car again.

The problem is, as always, people.

much like problem with gun crime isn't guns, it's the people who use them...might beg to differ. By making it easy for people to use a car, you encourage their use and the growth of a motoring lobby to support it which continues the hegemony of the automobile (at least in this country)

I'll go further than 'fine'.
Some cars are bloody lovely.
There's nothing more beautiful than a long-nose Jaguar D-Type.
And I once stood for about half an hour at a classic car show just drinking in every detail of a Maserati Bora with utter desire.

It's just that quite a lot of drivers are not very good at driving. But then a lot of cyclists are not very good at cycling.

much like problem with gun crime isn't guns, it's the people who use them...might beg to differ. By making it easy for people to use a car, you encourage their use and the growth of a motoring lobby to support it which continues the hegemony of the automobile (at least in this country)

I don't think we should make it harder to use cars, I think we should make it easier and more pleasant to use the alternatives and endeavor to alter the rhetoric so that driving is less of a reflex or a God given right. Education and public transport improvements say I.

yes BQ but bad drivers kill other people, bad cyclists don't
So you're coming to tent City Uni at St pauls?
Then a ride over to West drinks...

See even that isn't accurate.
Most bad drivers never kill or injure anyone.
Some of the very worst drivers might, but it's such a tiny proportion of the total that you can't generalise.

And I'm pretty sure that a few bad cyclists at least manage to kill themselves.

By making it easy for people to use a car, you encourage their use and the growth of a motoring lobby to support it which continues the hegemony of the automobile (at least in this country)

It's not easy to use a car. We make people wait unti they are 17, make them pass a strict and really quite difficult test, impose compulsory insurance on them (at exhorbitant cost for the newer driver) and demand that drivers adhere to a huge and confusing raft of motoring legislation. On top of that we design or alter roads to discourage driving, subsidise a flotilla of buses to slow journeys down, allow any sod to dig up whatever road they see fit seemingly without any control whatsoever, and even without that the roads are simply packed full of cabs, lost people, delivery drivers, cyclists, pedestrians, wayward animals and so on.

Yet with all that people still consider public transport worse. Mainly because it is.

But Skydancer, the capacity for a car to be dangerous isn't being denied here by BQ or anyone else for that matter. We (cyclists) don't hurtle about on pavements (on the whole) as it's frowned upon and criminalised because it's dangerous. Cyclists could be a social nightmare and dangerous to boot if they acted that way, but we choose to modify our behavior. As should all drivers and as do most. I don't really see the relative lethal capacity of the vehicles to be the issue it's their respective behavior. And behavior can be affected, modified and moderated.

Ok putting it another way.
Drivers kill around 3,000 people a year and injure tens of 1000s more
A tiny number are hurt by people who ride bikes