Weight training exercises, barbell curls pointless for a trackie?

Ive started my winter weight training based around olympic squat, deadlift, clean and press with different leg press variations and hyperetensions. during recovery days when my back or legs are still tender is there any point in doing some barbell curls, shrugs and other isolation/bodybuilding type exercises? my thinking is that anything that makes the whole body stronger is a good thing but stronger biceps wont benefit sprinting much and they will grow stronger with deadlifts and clean and press anyway, just not as strong as if I isolated them too.

I train 1 day on, 1or2 days off. its when I have to take a 2nd day of recovery for a major muscle group I feel like I could be at the gym doing something else.

Ive started spinning classes, have bought rollers but yet to add them to my training program, and in time will buy a kurt kinetic road machine for sprint efforts at home. Im not working at the moment so have time to put a full training program together and want to get it perfect.

What are you training for specifically ?

There doesn't seem like there's any bike work in there at the moment. If you're training specifically for sprinting, and have a sprint goal in mind, then all that gym work is probably fine (I'll let my qualified people talk about that).

If however you're training for a track league or similar, then you should probably be spending more time on the bike building an endurance base. Again I'll let more qualified people comment on if that should be instead of or as well as the gym work.

You need to speak to DFP......

...... I feel like I could be at the gym doing something else.

Don't fuck about doing bicep curls! Get the legs turning over and spend time in the saddle.

They feel great tho, but ye I wont be doin them. I gave up bench press for the chesticles 2 years ago and do olympic press instead.

Don't fuck about doing bicep curls! Get the legs turning over and spend time in the saddle.

What are you training for specifically ?

There doesn't seem like there's any bike work in there at the moment. If you're training specifically for sprinting, and have a sprint goal in mind, then all that gym work is probably fine (I'll let my qualified people talk about that).

If however you're training for a track league or similar, then you should probably be spending more time on the bike building an endurance base. Again I'll let more qualified people comment on if that should be instead of or as well as the gym work.

Im training for senior national champs in sept '12, match sprint,1km. Also provincial champ 500m. Theres 2 8wk leagues before that and a couple of weekend events. Ill be competitve in the league but realisticly its the shorter races I'll do best in.
just tryin to put a plan in motion. Bike work will be in full swing in 6weeks.

You need to speak to DFP......

I have a feeling you might be taking the piss.

But yes, feel free to ask me if you need any pointers.

As with any sport, doing the actual activity as often and intensely as your recovery will allow is usually the most productive method of going about things.

But with any "power" sport like sprint cycling, the weight room can be highly productive. You can pack on heaps of useful muscle mass in your legs in a very short time, bring about "faster twitch" type qualities and the neurological adaptations to recruit it all very efficiently for maximal power output.

Track racing highly depends on conditioning though. You need to be able to hit max outputs over and over, after long-moderately intense endurance bouts. The sport depends far more on cardio-respiratory fitness that one might initially think. I know all the theory regarding the conditioning (but not done it myself!)

In regards to the bike stuff, I have a an acquaintance who is an olympic track medalist who I can pass on questions to. But I can help with weight training stuff if you need.

colm, do you have a coach? a bike coach and/or strength coach?

What hippy said. If you're looking at the sprint events in your Nationals then I'd highly recommend seeking out a track coach who can give you both a gym and bike programme.

IMHO barbell curls are pointless for nearly everyone, as are shrugs. Compound lifts (as in deadlift, clean and press, squat, benchpress, what you do already) are what you need. I really think that isolation exercises are best left to serious roided up bodybulders wishing to work on a specific body part only. If it's functional strength you want, curls are next to useless.

Perhaps add a day of exercises to both build both strength and explosive speed? Pulls ups, burpees, step up squats holding a couple of dumbells? Or an hour of kettlebell training?

IMHO barbell curls are pointless for nearly everyone, as are shrugs.

Curls and shrugs are both compound movements. Both can be extremely worthwhile if used appropriately.

For a cyclists, the usefulness of curls may never arise unless in the case of an injury or other problems. But for general strength, curls go hand in hand with picking heavy stuff (or people off the ground), think wrestling, rugby, strongman atlas stones, bench press or even as an accessory exercise to chins/pull ups.

Shrugs if done in the correct manner, can be a halfway movement between a power clean and a deadlift. Giving the many useful benefits of both. They are best left until a trainee is very adept at both powercleans and deadlifts however.

Thanks all for the tips. I dont have a coach but can prob get pointers from a few people. This was my first year but I progressed very quickly and with not alot of training so I know I can do much better with superior planning&effort.
Ive lifted weights on and off since age 16, 28 now. I like curls because it does offer usefull strength in everday situations, I guess if Im recovering from squats/deadlifts I should be spending that time on the bike. My upperbody strength does seem to help on the bike so thats why I asked about curls.
My weight training changed when I discovered Mark Rippetoe so I mostly use big movements anyway.
from what I can gather; lift weights for winter, get super strong while staying fit with a little bike work, then as Summer nears, progressively increase the miles for endurance and add some speed work on the track.(I can do derny training once a week)

also forgot to ask about calf raises?

Forget curls and stuff like calve raises for the mean time. They will not do anything useful for you on the bike unless you have a specific problem like injury.

If you want to work on your arms while achieving something more useful, do chin ups. Will help build a lot of stabilising muscle on your back which will make you more rigid on the bike. This will make you faster/more efficient while sprinting and less prone to fatigue when in the saddle for a long time. It will also help reduce likely hood of injury in a crash.*

I tried riding around a BMX track after a couple years of weight training, and the upper body strength I had was like a rocked booster.

Barbell Squats, deadlifts and single leg presses (yes on a machine) is probably what you want to spend most weight room time on.

• In theory.
  

I can't comment about track, but when did bmx racing the fast guys used to do a lot of upper body work outs, it all helps with your overall strength, and as said things like push ups, pull ups and others build muscles you do use on the bike. The bmxers said they could sprint faster as their arms helped to pull the bike from side to side when sprinting hard - although I'm not sure on track your upper body does quite as much work as your at a much higher speed

With BMX upper body and ab strength is essential for pumping the ground, with track it will help for out of saddle sprint starts and generally holding yourself firmly onto the bike so you can really drive with your legs.

I take it this would apply to a road racer too? What about just a general road rider as well? I like excuses to start doing weights again but don't seem to be able to keep going for very long - so need as many excuses as possible :D

I don't think there's any benefit to doing upper body strength work for road racing - it's just going to slow you down by adding dead weight on climbs. The other stuff (legs, core) you'll get by riding your bike lots anyway. I know I get all the length strength I need by climbing whilst seated on a fixed for instance

Thanks all for the tips. I dont have a coach but can prob get pointers from a few people. This was my first year but I progressed very quickly and with not alot of training so I know I can do much better with superior planning&effort.
Ive lifted weights on and off since age 16, 28 now. I like curls because it does offer usefull strength in everday situations, I guess if Im recovering from squats/deadlifts I should be spending that time on the bike. My upperbody strength does seem to help on the bike so thats why I asked about curls.
My weight training changed when I discovered Mark Rippetoe so I mostly use big movements anyway.
from what I can gather; lift weights for winter, get super strong while staying fit with a little bike work, then as Summer nears, progressively increase the miles for endurance and add some speed work on the track.(I can do derny training once a week)

also forgot to ask about calf raises?

are you training for the sprint? if so this is not the ideal way to go

Curls and shrugs are both compound movements. Both can be extremely worthwhile if used appropriately.

For a cyclists, the usefulness of curls may never arise unless in the case of an injury or other problems. But for general strength, curls go hand in hand with picking heavy stuff (or people off the ground), think wrestling, rugby, strongman atlas stones, bench press or even as an accessory exercise to chins/pull ups.

Shrugs if done in the correct manner, can be a halfway movement between a power clean and a deadlift. Giving the many useful benefits of both. They are best left until a trainee is very adept at both powercleans and deadlifts however.

why would a shrug one of the technically easiest gym exercises need someone to be proficient at cleans and dead lift two of the technically harder exercises? As for being a "half way exercise" what a load of tish.

The other stuff (legs, core) you'll get by riding your bike lots anyway. I know I get all the length strength I need by climbing whilst seated on a fixed for instance

I wish this was true...

You will not get good core strength from cycling alone. I learned this the hard way...

Cycling can and will overdevelop certain muscle groups to the detriment of others and can throw your body out of balance if your core is not strong and stable.

I wish this was true...

You will not get good core strength from cycling alone. I learned this the hard way...

Cycling can and will overdevelop certain muscle groups to the detriment of others and can throw your body out of balance if your core is not strong and stable.

Agree with this too

Interesting, but I don't believe many pros spend time in the gym ? Wouldn't they need to propotionally more core work the longer they spend on the bike ?

Talking from a road perspective, obv. sprint trackies need as much time in the gym as possible !

Interesting, but I don't believe many pros spend time in the gym ? Wouldn't they need to propotionally more core work the longer they spend on the bike ?

Talking from a road perspective, obv. sprint trackies need as much time in the gym as possible !

It's an interesting subject. Upper body strength is vital for power output whatever the sport, even if you don't use the arms. The more power going through the legs the more upper body you will need to maintain the power output through a solid platform and connection with the bike. More important still is core strength.

Upper body strength isn't always about big bulging biceps, you should be catering towards building lean muscle not bulk muscle.

I wish this was true...

You will not get good core strength from cycling alone. I learned this the hard way...

Cycling can and will overdevelop certain muscle groups to the detriment of others and can throw your body out of balance if your core is not strong and stable.

Yes. This is exactly how I damaged my back. The physio took one look at me and said it was so obvious I was a cyclist. As she put it "My core strength is a joke" and I have very overdeveloped quads compared to pretty much everything else

Same here Mike, the problem for me was compounded by the fact my job is office based and I shunned all other activity to focus on cycling in a very amateur way. End result 1 year off bike and lots of money spent on physio. Luckily, I had private medical cover through work.

I now mix cycling with, footy, running and gym to keep my core more engaged and stronger.