A view from the saddle- training for HGV drivers

Cyclists have been getting the view from HGVs for a while now. TfL are keen to get drivers on bikes to see things from the cyclists perspective:

TfL's submission to JAUPT, the accrediting body for driver CPC training has now been approved. This means that courses which get these drivers on bikes and look at how they can share the road with cyclists and minimise the risk to cyclists and other road users, will count towards their compulsory professional development training (CPC).

Cycle Training UK, and 2 other cycle training companies together with specialist driver training companies are rolling out this training in some London Boroughs this Autumn.

It has taken a while for JAUPT to approve this excellent Road Danger Reduction measure which completes the Changing Places loop. Getting the drivers on bikes should really help towards minimising the lorry danger (and perhaps even encourage some drivers to take up cycling)

Not argumentative but will cyclist get compulsory training too? From many posts on here there are many cyclists that put themselves in the danger zones seemingly without thinking.

Now can there be a CPC for bus drivers and Taxi's (both black and private hire)

The difference is that the motorists have the power to change a cyclists' fate.

The difference is that the motorists have the power to change a cyclists' fate.

Ah blame someone else on your fate.:)

I don't know/agree even you have commented on that behaviour.

The point being is that even if the cyclists may be in the wrong, the drivers by national standard should able to avoid such collision.

but then, even a cyclists who learned how to work with the traffic will still be at risk from uneducated drivers, such as my recent experienced with an HGV whom think it's perfectly fine to squash me away from the road.

Cracking idea.

Always two sides to every story.

Lynx, Ed, please shut the fuck up.

I am closing this thread for the night.

Well, I would if it were in the Cycle Training forum.

Not argumentative but will cyclist get compulsory training too? From many posts on here there are many cyclists that put themselves in the danger zones seemingly without thinking.

Now can there be a CPC for bus drivers and Taxi's (both black and private hire)

major principle here is minimising the danger at source. The danger is not from the cyclists but the lorry and motors. This is a better way of managing risk so that even if a cyclist makes a mistake the driver post this training may have learnt to drive in a way that allows this

And lynx, many bus drivers have been trained and the quality of their driving is much improved.

I am closing this thread for the night.

Discussion is good.
Many drivers are getting the training and it would be good to hear how this is going from both drivers and trainers. Done some training already and there are some keen riders amongst them. I flag up this thread to them . see if they'll write about their experience

Are any of you professional HGV drivers? Have any of you guys driven HGV's? Then you guys would have a better understanding.

There are many post complaining/commenting about cyclists riding and road awareness.

Also how many non London truckers come in and out of the capital, what about foreign drivers

Ban them and torch their trucks. It's the only way.

Discussion is good.

Are any of you professional HGV drivers? Have any of you guys driven HGV's? Then you guys would have a better understanding.

There are many post complaining/commenting about cyclists riding and road awareness.

Also how many non London truckers come in and out of the capital, what about foreign drivers

Not always.

LCC press release--well done to all who worked on this.

Thousands more lorry drivers are in line to receive cyclist-awareness training now that on-bike courses have been officially approved as part of a driver’s Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC) and are backed by Transport for London (TfL) funding.

So far 6 of 33 London boroughs have given their lorry drivers cyclist-awareness training, but the measure can now be rolled out to every council as part of a driver’s CPC, the compulsory training that every UK driver must undertake once a year.

Private lorry operators are also much more likely to choose cyclist-awareness training for their drivers now that it's CPC-accredited.

Through our No More Lethal Lorries campaign, LCC played a key role in highlighting the problem of lorry deaths in the capital, including lobbying for adoption of cyclist-awareness training by London boroughs with a 10,000-name petition.

LCC campaigns officer Charlie Lloyd (freight expert and former lorry driver) said, "HGV drivers who've cycled on the roads as part of the training tell us they become more aware of more vulnerable road users, which can help prevent injury and death to cyclists.

"Getting CPC-accreditation for on-bike cyclist-awareness training is a major step towards achieving our aim that all lorry drivers working in London know what it’s like to ride a bike in the city.”

HGVs account for about half of cyclist fatalities in Greater London, even though they make up only 5% of the traffic.

The No More Lethal Lorries campaign, including the 10,000-name petition handed in to the mayor in July this year, has been instrumental in bringing about the change.

Lloyd said, "We want to thank the 10,000-plus people who supported our petition, donated to our appeal, and gave their time to the campaign.

"And well done to Transport for London, Cycle Training UK, Bikeworks and CycleInstructor.com for pushing through the official approval for this kind of training."

yeah, this is really good news, lets hope the big hauliers really get on with it,
could bring about some good long term culture change.
I still have reservations as to whether your local firm, trying hard to make a living will be hooked in, as they are sometimes the worst road users, but its a good start

In the majority of vehicle/cyclist collisions it is the DRIVER'S fault. Research has confirmed this, cyclists have a natural aversion to colliding with vehicles because the consequences are likely to be more serious than a scratched bumper and a paint touch-up.
Every day I see lorry drivers jump red lights, read paperwork at the wheel (like the lorry driver who killed Emma Foa), drive whilst on a mobile (like the lorry driver who killed Catriona Patel) or drive over the permitted number of hours (like the lorry driver who killed Tony Spink) , or drive with faulty eyesight (like the lorry driver who killed Eilidh Cairns), or not even notice the cyclist and smash into them from behind (like the lorry driver who killed Vera Chapel).

Kind of agree with m.f. too, what pressure will be brought to bear on small scaffolding firms, skip lorry drivers or flat bed tipper truck drivers (sorry, don't know the proper name). IMO these drivers often behave like complete sociopaths. Also, paid by the load so a natural aversion to taking care.

We're teaching the first of these accredited courses this week and next week in Hammersmith and Fulham for the SERCO drivers. While we were out, one of the dust-cart drivers on his bike was passed closely at speed by a driver in a skip lorry while waiting to turn right off a main road. Another was tail-gated by a van man on his mobile who took offence and stuck a finger at us when i suggested that he may be bringing his company's name (Written on the side of the van) in to disrepute...
...all good stuff this which really helped those SERCO guys understand the core messages from the training.

Regarding the small companies, as far as I understand the onus is on every LGV/PCV driver to do 7 hours a year of this CPC training in order to keep their license, not on the companies, and all the training is about minimising risk. TfL will be promoting this 'Safer Urban Driving' module to all drivers in London. I know the the DfT is looking into going nationwide with this.

Am I being a luddite in wondering aloud that "there must be a better way than using trucks all the time"?

Trains are far more efficient but they can't get the loads right to the buildings so trucks do it.

Round up all the rioters and get them to carry the loads to the stores/building sites. Just like Egypt a few thousand years ago. Nothing can't be achieved with a big whip..

Rubbish bin collection= big bike trailer

Am I being a luddite in wondering aloud that "there must be a better way than using trucks all the time"?

I was just reading this actually;

http://www.transportscotland.gov.uk/files/documents/roads/freight/Short_haul_rail_freight_on_track_for_profits_in_Scotland.pdf

They don't give a "mass moved" by "unit of fuel". That is misleading.

hang on....

While they say that a train can carry 37 HGVs (good!)
Trucks = 7 miles per gallon, trains = 0.7 miles per gallon.
1 truck = 30 tonnes
10 trucks = 300 tonnes

37 trucks =
1110 tonnes at 0.7 miles per gallon (train)
vs
1110 tonnes at 7 miles per gallon (truck)

Importantly, no cyclists are killed by left turning trains.

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/05/rail-trucking-greenest.php

Compared to trucking, rail transit does sport higher efficiency numbers - today's average train has an efficiency of 400 ton-miles per gallon whereas trucks currently hover around 130 ton-miles per gallon. Still, there are numerous reasons why addressing truck efficiency remains important, if not critical. For example, peer-reviewed research and companies like Wal-Mart have proved that trucks can easily achieve 260 ton-miles per gallon. And reaching 300+ ton-miles per gallon is not much harder, especially when a truck carries two or three trailers.

Piece from Local Transport today about getting lorry drivers on bikes

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&view=bsp&ver=ohhl4rw8mbn4