'Cause it's the cyclists that need educating...

Sorry if this has already been brought up, (I did do a search....)

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/8449166.Cyclists_become_lorry_drivers_in_road_safety_scheme/

they did a similar thing in borough during the summer i think.

That's been running for a while now. As usual, the most important safety message, not to get close to the driver's cab, is ignored in the article.

It is obviously not only the cyclists who need educating (although cycle training of course makes cycling much more enjoyable). See the LCC's five-point plan as part of our current HGV campaign:

http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?PageID=1911

Oliver
LCC

I do hate how the police and the politican try and spin it as if it's the cyclists' fault for being on the road.

A couple of lorry drivers who visited this forum claim that it's perfectly feasible to drive in London with a bit of extra care.

Lorry account for only 5% of the journery yet it's the biggest cyclist killer out there.

I do love the quote:

“Cyclists are advised to wear a protective helmet and reflective clothing and to ensure they have front and rear lights on their bicycle.”

because a polystyrene helmet is adequate protection when going under the wheels of a fully loaded articulated vehicle turning left

I would much prefer something along the lines of "and cyclists are encouraged to keep their distance from vehicles with long wheelbases and definitely not undertake them on the left as they put themselves at great risk of being crushed without the driver realising when doing this"

To be fair to the police, their advice has to be in keeping with the Highway Code, which does contain the poor advice on helmets and high-vis. The problem here is that the message that is actually important doesn't get through, perhaps because the journalist didn't understand what was going on well enough.

As usual, the most important safety message, not to get close to the driver's cab, is ignored in the article.

+1, this is shoddy journalism again. I imagine that the paper were sent a general invite and a quick drive by journo rehashed a few points out of the press release.

I agree with the OP though, there are quite a few cyclists that do need educating. Despite a lot of high profile cases, and a lot of good work by the Met, LCC, TfL et al, quite a few cyclists aren't manouvering around HGVs with caution appropriate to the conditions.

Yes, and a lot of that is because cycling in London keeps growing. There are just so many new cyclists around. However, as we know, that cyclists are new is not necessarily what causes crashes. Very experienced cyclists who have done nothing wrong have been killed.

Not antagonistic but maybe time to take responsibility for your self. Have seen so many people hugging the inside,riding on the inside of left turning vehicles no sense of what going on around them and its not their fault? Lets blame everyone else and not take responsibility.

With education (training) they can see the error of there ways and make the cycling more enjoyable.

Blame TfL for that, rather than the cyclists;

They're there because bicycle lane encourage them to be there in the first place, and it become a habit.

get rid then.

Or eeducate people that you don't have to use them as they are not compulsory.

Or invite cyclists to use them properly, move into the centre of the box, making sure the drivers can see you and give you enough time to get out of their way when the lights change.
Ed's photo shows cyclists not taking advantage of the ASL, if they moved in front of the PO van the driver would wait for them to get away before turning left.

If any cyclist comes across a car, van or lorry indicating left then they should stay back or move around and overtake on the right side, into the ASL box.

get rid then.

Or eeducate people that you don't have to use them as they are not compulsory.

Doesn't the highway code state that "cyclists must use cycle lanes if it is possible to do so" or something like that? My take on it is that 'if safe to do so' is implicit in this and this is not always the case, but the statement has the feel of a command.

Blame TfL for that, rather than the cyclists;

They're there because bicycle lane encourage them to be there in the first place, and it become a habit.

What is going on here?! The nodder should be in the green box, in front of the van.

People... grr...

Doesn't the highway code state that "cyclists must use cycle lanes if it is possible to do so" or something like that? My take on it is that 'if safe to do so' is implicit in this and this is not always the case, but the statement has the feel of a command.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/TravelAndTransport/Highwaycode/DG_069837

States not compulsory.

The MUST was thankfully removed from the proposed updates.

What is going on here?! The nodder should be in the green box, in front of the van.

People... grr...

I disagree. PO vans are often driven so aggressively I'd rather hang back where this picture was taken from.

Doesn't the highway code state that "cyclists must use cycle lanes if it is possible to do so" or something like that? My take on it is that 'if safe to do so' is implicit in this and this is not always the case, but the statement has the feel of a command.

63 - Cycle Lanes. These are marked by a white line (which may be broken) along the carriageway (see Rule 140). Keep within the lane when practicable. When leaving a cycle lane check before pulling out that it is safe to do so and signal your intention clearly to other road users. **** Use of cycle lanes is not compulsory and will depend on your experience and skills****, but they can make your journey safer.

I disagree. PO vans are often driven so aggressively I'd rather hang back where this picture was taken from.

For serious? It's your right to be at the front in the funny green box. What's Mr. Postman gonna do, drive straight over you? He can wait as far as I'm concerned... In a few feet he'll be able to overtake you if the road is open...

Yes, but you don't necessary *need *to go on the ASL.

there's no shame in waiting behind a vehicle or two.

Personally I like to get to the front and have a clear path as 90% of the time I accelerate away from the lights faster than the other cyclists. Oh and I wouldn't want to stay behind a motor vehicle as if they need to stop or creep through a junction, they are holding me up.

hycct?

I disagree. PO vans are often driven so aggressively I'd rather hang back where this picture was taken from.

For serious? It's your right to be at the front in the funny green box.

I'm broadly with Skully on this one... it's my 'right' to do a lot of stuff on the roads as a cyclist and road user... sometimes I chose to avail myself of the right not to do something as well as often availing myself of the right to do something. I'm just very clear that other road users know what I am doing.

If I know a driver is driving aggressively, and/or is clearly in a hurry, I may well chose to hold back, or help them on their way, rather than antagonise unduly.

I realise this may be controversial, but I am Number Six, I am not a number, I am a free man.

63 - Cycle Lanes. Park within the lane when practicable.

Fixed

Agree about getting into the box. People seem to think it's polite to queue up in the van's blindspot though, I've been told off for going to the front before.

Bikes boxes are a dysfunctional piece of traffic mis-planning as is 99% of cyclist specific traffic mis-planning. It is true that being in the middle first in queue is a desirable place to be when the lights change, but getting there requires going through the worst place to be (next to the curb in the blind spot). A cyclists has no advance knowledge when the light will change and thus can be in the good place or in the worst place when the light changes. Using bike boxes requires expert knowledge of how to outsmart the wrong education they give (feeder lane next to curb) and when one should not use them at all (HGV:s), yet they are marketed as an aid to the meek and unexperienced cyclists. I find it incredible that bike boxes enjoy such a good reputation among British cyclists who are usually well informed about dangers of coffin corner type facilities.