Cycling-Related Strength & Conditioning

A thread for the discussion of strength and conditioning ideas, techniques, videos, critiques, *principally *aimed at cyclists (though a little wider discussion won't hurt).

• ask questions

• post videos (yourself or others)

• share ideas

• keep interested forum members aware of developments / controversy within the field

• share your experiences, training diaries, workouts

• etc

In your own time...

Ohh how exciting who is going first?!?

Oh, alright, I will:

As far as I can tell, physiologically/genetically, I'm all glute and hamstring, but not so much quad.

This has been borne out by various experiments with bike position, where if I try a more forward position (as is popular with TTers, and triathletes (to save their posterior chain for the run)), my power output is shit. And you just have to look at me to see it's true.

So, I'm intending to go for quad-isolating weights this winter and little else*. Next year, I intend to focus on short TTs, and perhaps dabble in pursuit (I'm probably too short to be a decent pursuiter, but my ~4min power is good).

I'm going to maintain a more rearward position than your average TTer, but I still want to be able to delegate a little more of the work to my quads/the stomp phase of the pedalstroke.

My idea is to start with high rep barbell hack squats, having read some research that showed decent strength endurance gains with higher rep sets. Can't find the reference right now.

Any thoughts?

*obviously I'm doing a lot of bike/turbo stuff too :)

Personally I would avoid the hack squat especially if doing it on a machine, I think you would get more from a standard free weight squat, what are you calling high reps?

For specific quad development the leg extention would also have some benefit, whether the extra muscle would transfer well to endurance efforts is debatable though. How about you try it and report back to us?

[notatrackie] jog down long hills. Boring but effective [/notatrackie]

Carry on

Any thoughts?

i think you think *a lot * about this stuff.

i'd certainly like to know what i'm suited to. i thought it might be roleur-ing in general, but i'm basically just shit at it. i quite enjoy a long grinding climb now i have gears, as long as the gradient isn't too silly.

Personally I would avoid the hack squat especially if doing it on a machine, I think you would get more from a standard free weight squat, what are you calling high reps?

For specific quad development the leg extention would also have some benefit, whether the extra muscle would transfer well to endurance efforts is debatable though. How about you try it and report back to us?

This.

@ babydino - definitely not a machine.

It's just home-based free weights, no rack, with ~bodyweight available in 'iron' (so no extensions either).

Last winter I gained 10% in BW through a variety of stuff (squat/fr squat/deadlift/row/press), but didn't appreciate the way I'd 'thickened out' from the hips upwards when it came to riding on the road.

I was under the impression the barbell hack squat would stimulate less whole body growth? Also considering reverse lunge (short stride) as a unilateral element - I find it easier to keep good form than going forwards.

High rep? Well, I've gone for 12 (5 sets yesterday, with 3min recovery). I've seen people talking about 25+ for 'endurance' gains, but that seems like an injury waiting to happen, and I'd rather do some big gear work on the bike/turbo.

whatever you do, do it topless and oiled up...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDawlrIeaVM

As far as I can tell, physiologically/genetically, I'm all glute and hamstring, but not so much quad.

This has been borne out by various experiments with bike position, where if I try a more forward position (as is popular with TTers, and triathletes (to save their posterior chain for the run)), my power output is shit.

How have you measured this?
I can see ham recruitment possibly more pronounced with saddle further back, but I'm not sure that the glutes would be affected so much, look at sprinting: glute led with a waay forward position.
Could there be something in the adaptation? ie: you would need to get used to it before seeing the output come back up.

If you want to have a play with some different positions and measure outputs I'll be doing some wattbike sessions soon.

With approx power based on power curve of turbo model / PT testing done of said model (see attached, plus tests done with a mate's PT). Not clinically accurate, but consistent in and of itself, IYSWIM (see attachment for old model of Fluid2).

I take your point about adaptation, but I've stuck with an adjusted/more forward position during an entire winter before, and it just doesn't seem to work for me. My track position is a very subtle shift (1cm forward, 1cm down), and any time I'm waaaay forward on the rivet, it seems to be more during 'hanging on' stages i.e. maintaining a sprint cadence through neuromuscular co-ordination, rather than applying power. I feel like I'm shifting back slightly and wriggling my hips when I put the hammer down.

For TTs, I'm going for road fit with 'shorty' bars, so something like the invisible tribar position you see in the peloton, except with bar visibility :D

Anyway, drifting off topic.

Thanks for all the opinions offered so far.

1 Attachment

Spent this season doing club runs and sportives and would like to start racing next season. My main goal is to move to Cat 3. Mostly will be doing crits, Hogg Hill, Hillingdon, Crystal Palace. But would also like to try a few road races and maybe ride on the track.

I think that I am lacking explosiveness and power and would like to improve during my winter training. *
What I have in mind so far is this on weekly basis :

1x 2-3 hour ride on a road bike to maintain endurance.
5x Commute to work on a fixed bike (13km each way)
1xWeights. Squats, lunges, deadlifts. Low weight 12-15 reps 5 sets first few weeks. Gradually increase weight/reduce reps 8-10 reps, 3-5 sets.
1xAbs/lower back exercises + stretching.
2xTurbo (1hour).

Should I do less/more of any of the above?
Should I add something else?
What should I be doing on my Turbo to improve power considering all of the above?
Am I getting reps/sets right?
What training plans do others have?

Sorry, many questions but I am very new to all this.

Many thanks.

*I have noticed this during club runs/sportives this summer. I am comfortable with moderate gradient hills (Toys Hill, Box Hill, Ditchling Beacon, Beachy Head) where I can get into rythm and pedal my way up seated, staying just under my max heart rate (180-190bmp max is 195).
But I am shit at steep but short hills which require explosive climbing out of the saddle (Brasted, Yorks Hill, Toys from the steep side). I am also finding it hard to build up speed fast (spin big gear fast).

1x 2-3 hour ride on a road bike to maintain endurance.
5x Commute to work on a fixed bike (13km each way)
1xWeights. Squats, lunges, deadlifts. Low weight 12-15 reps 5 sets first few weeks. Gradually increase weight/reduce reps 8-10 reps, 3-5 sets.
1xAbs/lower back exercises + stretching.
2xTurbo (1hour).

Power comes from increasing strength. Moving maximal loads (even slowly) causes maximal recruitment of muscle fibres and imrpovement of fast twitch qualities of those muscle fibres.

The key is quality over quantity.

Your single session in the weight room would be better spent just doing deadlifts, or just doing squats.

Keep the reps at 5. Increase the sets across if you can feel the need for more training volume, decrease sets if you have problems with recovery. Your goal above all else should be to add weight to your lifts each week whilst maintaining good technique. This is more important than the ability to do more sets/reps.

Deadlifts are more taxing than squats. So one workset of 5 is probably enough. If you are reducing your worksets on squats to just one, a back off set at reduced load (after your workset) is a good idea. To reinforce perfect technique (and supportive weaker muscles) as well as adding little more less stressful training volume.

Dont worry so much about the unilateral=bike specific thing for now. That is only relevant when you get a lot stronger. So I would ditch the idea of lunges for now.

Deadlifts & Squats will absolutely be all the low back work that you need. Do not add exercises. They will also work your "core" or abdominal stability very thoroughly. Specific anterior abdominal work is largely a very poor use of time. If you want to do somethine for them, do overhead presses. They will work your abominal stability extremely thoroughly (your glutes & your abs) while imrpoving shoulder strength which will also be useful on the bike.

In terms of your bike stuff, I would suggest your find some time to programme in some high output sprinting. You are already doing a lot of commuting which I am guessing is more leisurely paced. You want an opporunity to really go balls out, focusing on anaerobic sprints and V02max work seperately. Interval stuff and what not. Ill let someone else step in here though.

Make sure you do not take lance's video as inspiration. That was the most horrendous thing I have ever seen.

Spent this season doing club runs and sportives and would like to start racing next season. My main goal is to move to Cat 3. Mostly will be doing crits, Hogg Hill, Hillingdon, Crystal Palace. But would also like to try a few road races and maybe ride on the track.

I think that I am lacking explosiveness and power and would like to improve during my winter training. *
What I have in mind so far is this on weekly basis :

1x 2-3 hour ride on a road bike to maintain endurance.
5x Commute to work on a fixed bike (13km each way)
1xWeights. Squats, lunges, deadlifts. Low weight 12-15 reps 5 sets first few weeks. Gradually increase weight/reduce reps 8-10 reps, 3-5 sets.
1xAbs/lower back exercises + stretching.
2xTurbo (1hour).

Should I do less/more of any of the above?
Should I add something else?
What should I be doing on my Turbo to improve power considering all of the above?
Am I getting reps/sets right?
What training plans do others have?

Sorry, many questions but I am very new to all this.

Many thanks.

*I have noticed this during club runs/sportives this summer. I am comfortable with moderate gradient hills (Toys Hill, Box Hill, Ditchling Beacon, Beachy Head) where I can get into rythm and pedal my way up seated, staying just under my max heart rate (180-190bmp max is 195).
But I am shit at steep but short hills which require explosive climbing out of the saddle (Brasted, Yorks Hill, Toys from the steep side). I am also finding it hard to build up speed fast (spin big gear fast).

personally i would say dont bother with the gym, the time spent there would be better spent doing something on the bike like a starts/accelleration session.

For Hyperbole, I agree with babydino that weightroom stuff probably wouldn't give you functional gains…

…but this leads me to another topic for this thread:

Doing some weights regularly (even if off-season only) to maintain bone density.

This is something that I'm keen to continue with ad mortem. I'm not getting any younger, and believe this is the most convenient way for me to stay 'dense'. On the one hand, I don't think high impact sports do your body much good in the long run, but on the other hand, sports with no load bearing to speak of e.g. cycling, are not doing you a huge favour either, are they.

Are there any other cyclists on here who do/plan to do weights for this purpose, instead or as well as for sprint-related prowess?

Ahh I meant to add the caveat that it's worth considering weights for masters/older riders for the reason you mentioned and also to keep muscle mass.

I will need to keep doing my strength work over winter and that really means glutes and hamstrings and primarily working on flexibility and elongation of hamstrings, hip flexors and glutes.

That is all...

@bmmf

I do! I've been doing upper body stuff for the last 15 months of so, it's isn't really anything to do with improving performance on the bike, I just want to get stronger and look better. Trying to get my body in proportion too ;)

Free weights, picked up a set on Gumtree, got a bench and a pair of free standing squat stands. Also been doing pulls and using the parallel bars at the exercise park in Primrose. I'd be up for a workout session down there if anyone's up for it.. I love it, and would recommend it to anyone.

masters/older riders... to keep muscle mass.

Hello.

Oh hai, Rob.

The future:

• wake up
  
• have porridge for breakfast
  
• do some squats
  
• get weekly pension
  
• blow the whole lot on 2kg rice
  
• watch Countdown
  
• do some stretching
  
• cook rice for dinner
  
• pint of stout
  
• bed
  

Bone density yeah.
Since I became old and moved out of hard physical work, I've been happy with the way weights have kept the back ache at bay and (some of) the flab off. At 37* building muscle mass isn't as easy as when I was in my twenties.

*38 in ten days

The present:

• wake up
  
• have porridge for breakfast
  
• do some squats
  
• get weekly pension
  
• blow the whole lot on 2kg rice
  
• watch Countdown
  
• do some stretching
  
• cook rice for dinner
  
• pint of stout
  
• bed
  
  

Fixed

^sounds good. Mustn't grumble.

Bone density yeah.
Since I became old and moved out of hard physical work, I've been happy with the way weights have kept the back ache at bay and (some of) the flab off. At 37* building muscle mass isn't as easy as when I was in my twenties.

*38 in ten days

You need some injectable testicle juice.