Designing Path Racer/Porteur Frame - opinions?

I'm fairly new posting to this forum, but I've read up quite a bit. I have a small project I've been working on for a little while, www.slowbicycles.com.

I prefer quality over quantity, efficiency, classic looks (ala Path Racer/Portuer/Roadsters).

Anyway, after building many bikes and searching for different parts I realized I couldn't really find what I wanted (without going vintage). That being: a lugged frame, threaded fork, track ends, mudguard eyelets, etc.. in a quality/possibly retro tubing. I did find brothers cycles, but the geometry was a bit stiff for me. Then I found Viking cycles, but they were too expensive and again stiff. I drool upon Mercian's but they're not really accessible to the average person. So, I started designing my own frame. It's getting close to completion as a Prototype and I wanted to get some input from the forum members here.

Here are the specs as of right now:

GEOMETRY: (see photo) Very similar to the Steamroller (I chose the steamroller, because out of all the bikes I've owned the geometry of this frame was the most versatile and comfortable.

TUBING: Reynolds 531 Main Triangle, CrMo Fork and Rear Triangle

FORK: Threaded, 38mm Rake, Mudguard eyelets

TIRES: 700x32c with Mudguards (hopefully)

It's basically my best take on a Modern (hopefully affordable) Path Racer Frame.

Thanks and I Look Forward to Hearing your opinions,

Seth

I don't know much about path racers but in my eyes your spec is pretty much what I'd go for too. It sounds like a great project and the kind of thing I'd like to start doing soon. Very interesting website too!

Hey Seth,

Good to see a fellow CAD monkey. Can't give you much advice on bike geometry but out of interest how did you choose your frame sizing? Based on your actual body measurements or what you feel is most comfortable through experience?

If you want any 3D work doing I'd be happy to use your elevations to make a parametric model in SolidWorks for you, sounds a fun project.

Hey Seth,

Good to see a fellow CAD monkey. Can't give you much advice on bike geometry but out of interest how did you choose your frame sizing? Based on your actual body measurements or what you feel is most comfortable through experience?

If you want any 3D work doing I'd be happy to use your elevations to make a parametric model in SolidWorks for you, sounds a fun project.

Hey, I'd love to claim I had this sort of skill, but this was actually the framebuilders work. I'm just sorting the measurements, angles, etc..

why not purchase a vintage frame. i'm riding a '58 holdsworth zephyr and one if the not the best riding bike i've owned.

personally, if you will be riding it fixed a lot, maybe consider raising BB a fraction, to eliminate pedal strike. also, you may need to make a bit more room for full guards especially if running 32 tyres, look pretty tight.

why not purchase a vintage frame. i'm riding a '58 holdsworth zephyr and one if the not the best riding bike i've owned.

personally, if you will be riding it fixed a lot, maybe consider raising BB a fraction, to eliminate pedal strike. also, you may need to make a bit more room for full guards especially if running 32 tyres, look pretty tight.

Thanks for your input. I guess I wasn't clear on my original post. This is not a one off frame for myself, I'm going to be selling these (eventually).

I love Vintage as you can see from my site, but it can be difficult to get hold of what you want and there can scratches, dents, dings, etc.. Nothing like a fresh steel New frame!

I had the same thoughts about the BB drop, I'm considering raising it to 65mm or 60mm. Anyone, know what sort of difference that's going to make in ride quality?

Yeah 32 tires with guards do look pretty tight, I've been telling the builder I probably need more room, but there English isn't always up to snuff.

Cheers

Which country is it being built in?

I went though this exact search for about a year before i found my mystery (possibly JRJ) path frame.

I'm very happy with the results of my search, I have to say though that track ends and permanently affixed mudgurads are a monumental ballache.

My 2p of advice is, if you "must" have track ends make sure you've got some mecahanism for adjusting and quick releasing at least your rear mudguard.

EDIT - oh sorry, i just read your last post. i misunderstood. I thought you were just after a one-off (i can't see the links in yr first post). As you were.

Which country is it being built in?

Like virtually every other bike these days, the far east (Taiwan).

Do reynolds still produce 531 on a large scale?
I thought they'd replaced it with 525.

Do reynolds still produce 531 on a large scale?
I thought they'd replaced it with 525.

I know they "replaced" it with 631 (the hardened version), but apparently they still produce it, maybe casually. I know www.cooperbikes.com uses 531 on a few of their models. I want to use 531, but it will depend on the costs.

why not purchase a vintage frame. i'm riding a '58 holdsworth zephyr and one if the not the best riding bike i've owned.

Good idea, but... if I wanted outdated tubing, a quill stem and - to a lesser extent - lugs, I'll stick to my 50s bike. I do like the vintage look but I wouldn't buy something build in 2010 that is technically obsolete. Since you can't build charm and patina you might as well slightly compromise the look and get something that works better.

Mate, go for 631 instead.

Bob Jackson's Vigorelli is regarded as a path racer due to it's grass track geo, enough room for even 32c without mudguard (28c with).

Skully's Yates I think was aimed at a road-path geo too, and it's modern (with ahead stem etc.).

...but **there **English isn't always up to snuff.

classic

:P

swap polo bike for mercian?

Mate, go for 631 instead.

Bob Jackson's Vigorelli is regarded as a path racer due to it's grass track geo, enough room for even 32c without mudguard (28c with).

Skully's Yates I think was aimed at a road-path geo too, and it's modern (with ahead stem etc.).

Yeah, all options are on the table at this point. I haven't ridden a 631 to compare.

it's 100 better than 531

Good idea, but... if I wanted outdated tubing, a quill stem and - to a lesser extent - lugs, I'll stick to my 50s bike. I do like the vintage look but I wouldn't buy something build in 2010 that is technically obsolete. Since you can't build charm and patina you might as well slightly compromise the look and get something that works better.

Vintage is great, I ride vintage (see my site), but it isn't accessible for everyone and the steel isn't as "springy". Right now I live in the States (where these will intially be sold) and Path Racer esqe frames are nearly impossible to come by (I know I've been looking). Not alot of options over here in terms of style, quality, character, etc..

As far as the "technically obsolete" comment goes I think you'd have an argument on your hands in many respects. It depends what you want to do. I'll take my 531 vintage frames anyday over the generic CrMo fixie/single speed frames for most daily riding. It's more comfortable, has more give, and at the same time more support. But, if you're talking about race bikes or the like, then yes you're going to win on a carbon blah blah frame. I think the technically obsolete argument is kind of a blanket statement without direction. "They don't make them like they used to."

My yates is 853

So 322 somethings better than 531

Fork rake: If you're really into designing a 'porteur' (beware these will probably be very uncool in London Fields any day now) I would look carefully at getting the trail right, since what you're talkin about is I assume a bike made to carry loads up front.

Velo Orange have quite a bit of stuff, I think, on their blog about getting the right trail for heavy loads. It's either them or someone doing very similar frames over in the US. You might consider to design a frame that would work with two forks: one raked for heavy loads (and the relevent eyes and brazeons) and raked for without. Or something.

I would imagine that you'll end up making these from Tange something or other, or 525*.

*I'm told this is basically the same tubing as 531, or as close as you can get these days.

Mate, go for 631 instead.

Bob Jackson's Vigorelli is regarded as a path racer due to it's grass track geo, enough room for even 32c without mudguard (28c with).

Skully's Yates I think was aimed at a road-path geo too, and it's modern (with ahead stem etc.).

The Vigorelli and Mercian's are definately a guiding point or inspiration. I love either! They're hard to come by/expensive in the States. Basically, I'm hoping for this frameset to be a more affordable/accessible option of those.

My yates is 853

So 322 somethings better than 531

Fork rake: If you're really into designing a 'porteur' (beware these will probably be very uncool in London Fields any day now) I would look carefully at getting the trail right, since what you're talkin about is I assume a bike made to carry loads up front.

Velo Orange have quite a bit of stuff, I think, on their blog about getting the right trail for heavy loads. It's either them or someone doing very similar frames over in the US. You might consider to design a frame that would work with two forks: one raked for heavy loads (and the relevent eyes and brazeons) and raked for without. Or something.

I would imagine that you'll end up making these from Tange or 525.

Ha, yeah 322 sounds good. I'm more into the functionality of the Path Racer, the Porteur reference is mainly out of frame of reference for style and design. Although, I'm moving to London next week, the frames will intially be sold State Side (Austin, Texas!)

So, will I be judged next week if I show up with a Porteur at Cat and Mutton (or does that still exist)?

"They don't make them like they used to"

I meant the opposite really. I have an old steel frame with quill stem and I like it however if I were to buy a modern frame I would look for superior tubing (ie better than 531) and Ahead, whis IS better than quill.
I'm not having a go at your project, I just believe you shouldn't dismiss modern technology.

C'mon Skully, post your bike. You know you want to. and it's perfectly relevant to my point.

classic

:P

Bastard, I was gonna do that.