Bonsai Trees

Bit of a long shot on a bike forum, but with nigh on 20,000 people registered its got to be worth a shot.

Does anyone know anything about Bonsai Trees?

I was given one three years ago, I love it and it has strong sentimental value but I fear that it is on its last legs, and I'm desperate that it shouldn't die. For the first six months that I had it it thrived gloriously as I followed the wee booklet that came with it meticulously. However after about 6 months things took a turn for the worse and the tree began to look pretty ropey despite me not changing anything. I checked the internet to see if I was doing something wrong and suddenly discovered that there are a million contradictory suggestions with bugger all consensus. So I pressed on and the tree has gone through phases of seeming to be on the verge of recovery and then plummeting back towards oblivion.

This time the oblivion seems deep. For the last few weeks it has had only a handful of leaves and suddenly all of those seem to be on their way out and are turning brown.

I stand the tree in water for 10 minutes every 10 days, this doesn't seem like much but the pot seems to remain permanently damp. When I water it I add some "bonsai food" to the water, and if it would only grow I'd prune it back but that hasn't been necessary for a year or so now. Also, the permanently damp pot is starting to smell a bit mouldy?

Can anyone help diagnose whats wrong with my tree and tell me how to revive it?

... I checked the internet to see if I was doing something wrong and suddenly discovered that there are a million contradictory suggestions with bugger all consensus. ...

So you came here...? :)

Afraid I cannot help you, but that ^ made me chuckle. As you were.

Hey dude I know bonsai trees, had them for years. Pm me with what sort of tree it is or a photo if you're unsure. Hopefully you've got a Chinese elm cuz those things are tough!

I had a bansai and I killed it after 6m, got another and that lasted ~6weeks.
This was mainly due to an extremely drafty flat.

I seem to remeber being advised (at PoS) that it needs watering weekly and feeding monthly.
If it smells a bit it sounds like the roots may have started rotting.
Have you repotted it at all?
It might have outgrown its pot.

depending on which type it is:

spray it daily
water it whenever the soil is dry
once a month dunk the whole base into water and wait for the bubbles to stop coming up.
Feed after dunking

there are various tricks to different trees but, in general, they don't like being dry and hungry, which happens fast in such little soil.

they don't like being dry and hungry, which happens fast in such little soil.

Genuine question from someone lacking in arboreal knowledge:

Why not just put it in a bigger pot?

Would it grow to fit it and cease to become 'bonsai'?
Or are they bred only ever to remain at a certain size?
Or is it an aesthetic thing only that keeps them in small pots?

OK cheers Benjam,

Right so after your post and more internet research I'm 99% sure I'm overwatering it.

The leaflet I got with it (from a dedicated bonsai shop down in Brighton) definitely says its a chinese elm.

I have been fully submerging the pot in water every 7 to 10 days rather than your approach of spraying daily and watering only when the soil is dry. This means that the soil never stops being damp, so I strongly suspect I've been drowning it. I last watered it 10 days ago and the soil is still pretty sodden, and for the last couple of months the soil has smelt quite mouldy which suggests I've also begun to rot the roots.

Here are a few pictures but as I say it really is in an atrocious condition! :(

This is the whole tree:

This is the rather sodden pot:

And these are the last remnants of the leaves up top:

Is it saveable and what do I have to do?

Presumably I need to repot it at some point (and tend to the rotting roots), and I also need to dry it out a bit. Do you think it would be better to dry it out and hope it reestablishes itself a bit before I try to repot it, or is it so far gone that only a repotting might be able to save it?

I like the bow....

I'd give it a re-pot and see what happens, treat it too some lovely soil from a garden centre...

It is a Chinese Elm, I had one for years before it died in a sun-deprived squat.

It sounds to me like you're watering it too much, and constantly damp soil will drown the roots.
I'd consider re-potting it. Have you done so before? While doing this you can check on the roots and prune them back if needed (it will be if you've never done so before).

Also, when re-potting, you need to use specific bonsai (or similar) soil - it has sand and grit in it to promote drainage and aeration. Then put it in a bigger pot and pray to Buddha :)

Oh, and a disclaimer: I may have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'd like to think that I do!

Also, why not try a bonsai forum?

Do you get locusts swarming through the flat? If not it might be alopecia.

is it kept inside ? or outdoors.

+3 over-watering.

It is kept indoors but always in a sunny spot, It currently either lives next to a set of french doors or a bay window - both South East facing. The whole house is fairly shaded by large trees but it gets direct light in the mornings and ambient light in the afternoons.

I signed up to a gardening forum and have asked there but as yet LFGSS is coming up trumps!

I have never repotted the tree or done anything with the roots so this would possibly help. Is it reasonably strait forward? I'm worried that the tree is so weak that this might be the proverbial straw to the camel's back. Is it better to try and dry out the existing soil and then repot when it is a bit stronger, or is the tree so far gone that repotting is the only option left?

I'm guessing Bonsai soil would be readily available from a garden store?

Yeah it's definitely too wet (I've been into bonsai for years btw) and will also need repotting as there will no nutrition left in the soil it's in anymore. Don't muck about too much with the roots at this stage (don't cut them I mean) cos it'll be weak from being too wet and not having had any decent nourishmrent for a while. When you repot it just *gently *knock off the old soil from the roots (careful not to damage the root tips too much if possible) and place it in a pot deep enough so you can anchor the tree in it (i.e. so there's enough soil on top of the root ball to hold the tree in place, too little and the tree will topple over) and with a 2 or 3 inches of space round the sides of the root ball (it's important not to have too big a pot as the soil will stay wet for too long because there won't be enough roots to absorb all the moisture quickly enough and then you'll end up with the same prob as before. When you repot make sure you firm the soil around the roots (the Japanese way is to use a chopstick to gently ease the soil in around the roots) so there are no air pockets (roots cannot grow in air alone) but don't press it down so much that it's compacted and too hard for the roots to easily grow into - it's a fine line between the two. Any other probs or for further advice fire another question up here. I hope it survives (when the weather gets cold you should put it inside a shed or green house [but not a heated house] for protection until it gets stronger but it'll be well into the next growing season now before its strength increases significantly).

Looking at those pics again the tree is too big for that pot (it needs some more space i.e. a pot which is a bit deeper and perhaps a little wider - order one online from a bonsai nursery that sells proper bonsai pots) especially as it's old soil with no nutrition left in it. Also when a tree is weak/not healthy it shouldn't be fed which sounds odd but once it's as sick as yours has been any fertiliser added to the pot will overwhelm the tree and make even more unwell. The nourishment in this case should just come from some good/new soil (soil can be ordered from the same place you get the pot probably). You might also think about asking for some advice from one of the bonsai growers forums - Google is your friend.

^Good info^

From my experience, bonsai's are quite temperamental so I'd agree that both a re-potting and pruning might be too hectic for now. Anyway, I'll leave the mentoring to SaturdayKid now, they're talking a lot more sense than me!

try it outside... trees normally grow there...

Keep an eye on night temps as it will not like frost, but normally they thrive best outside in warmer weather...

try it outside... trees normally grow there...

There are such things as indoor bonsai i.e. trees or shrubs that are more suited to the warmer and drier air you find in centrally heated houses.

too much water

For anyone that's interested there's a great one page summary with pics (link below) of a guy who created a bonsai from a Hawthorn tree he collected from the wild. This is how a lot of bonsai start life and the vast majority of mine were dug up as young trees from gardens where they'd seeded themselves or from woodlands or other wild areas when they were still fairly small.

'Natural' bonsai are formed when a tree seedling grows in a small pocket of earth such as a crevice on a cliff face where it's growth is stunted due to the small growing space and harsh environmental conditions.

http://www.bonsai4me.com/AdvTech/AThawthornprogression.htm

i got all my info on bonsai by carefully studying the teachings of Miyagi

wax is no good for bonsai

You might also think about asking for some advice from one of the bonsai growers forums - Google is your friend.

I tried that, I posted on a Bonsai forum a couple of hours after my OP here, loads of views but still no responses. LFGSS wins again... "helpfulgardener" my arse!

Anyway, thanks for all of the advice. The bonsai4me basics page has loads of info so I'm learning alot. I think I'm going to try and repot in cat litter this weekend, I'm not sure I entirely buy the 100% inorganic approach so I think I'll add in a little bit of tree bark. I live on a small farm and there are lots of rotting logs around so do you see any reason why I shouldn't use some home found bark - is there any risk of disease or parasites etc? I may also add a tiny bit of the original soil (which looks fairly peaty to me) in case there are any useful mycorrhiza that I don't want to lose.

Also capturing wild trees looks fun, if I manage to get this one revived I might go and try my luck with a blackthorn or a Hawthorn.

Wax on, wax off.

I just had a quick look online and wow! I didn't realise bonsai trees would be so pricey.

Slightly off topic but can anyone recommend somewhere in London to buy one? And what is the least amount of money I can spend (I understand this approach will take more work on my behalf and the tree probably won't be as impressive)?

Hi, yes there is a potential risk of transmitting a virus or some other kind of infection to your tree by including treebark in the potting medium and to be honest there will be very little nutrition in rotten tree bark. The only thing bark is really good for is using as a mulch and that's nothing to do with adding nutrition to the earth it's put on it's about keeping weeds down, keeping moisture in or looking nice.

Cat litter??? Why cat litter? Again it contains no nutrients the tree can utilise and it's far too loose a medium anyway to be able to anchor a tree in unless I'm mistaken (I don't own a cat or have any sort of relationship with cat litter these days so I'm not certain but last time I checked it was course gritty stuff).

Also, any mycorrhiza that is assisting the tree is already on the roots in sufficient quantities not to need the addition of any of the old soil. By all means leave some of the old soil clinging to the roots but transferring any more than that over to the new growing medium serves no purpose whatsoever and will just take up space that could be filled with healthy, nutrient rich compost (and no it's not entirely necessary that everything you use to repot is organic, most proprietary fertilisers are inorganic anyway so that should tell you there's no harm in using inorganic compounds on plants/trees in pots). Best of luck