Women's Safety in Traffic

Q: When riding to work I often see women cycling with their headphones in, filtering down the side of lorries and generally being dangerous. It's common knowledge that proportionally female cyclists are killed more often than male cyclists. So... How do I tell them to stop without sounding like a patronising prick?

I've been wondering about this myself.

I get so worked up about it in the shop when I'm selling a woman a bike (or even worse, hi-vis) that tears well up a bit in my eyes.

I wanted to do a guerrilla poster campaign to let women know, but I don't have the resources to get it off the ground.

Maybe this is something we could do as a ladies forum? Design a poster, raise some money, get it up and out?

As to what to say to them, well, I would lie like hell.

I would tap them on the shoulder and say, "look, I don't want to tell you what to do, but my girlfriend was hit by a lorry doing just that and I wouldn't be able to live with myself if the same thing happened to you."

Imagine if you said that and the next day your girlfriend gets hit by a lorry?

You'd feel a right arse

True.

But then the next time you said it, then it would be true.... (j/j)

I have to admit, I feel the need to put things into contexts that people will understand. When I was still a courier I would tell cab drivers about how I have a little girl, and that they shouldn't try and make her an orphan, sometimes accompanied by a photo of my MUCH younger little sister.

To me it didn't matter if it was a lie, because in the end it made the right point to a person who doesn't get points easily.

If this isn't something you feel comfortable with, then just be strait forward about it and don't worry about being patronizing...hopefuly they will think about it anyways.

Imagine if you said that and the next day your girlfriend gets hit by a lorry?

You'd feel a right arse

Well done Dov - the first person to use a rude word on the ladies forum. I think you'd feel worse than that. Personally, I'd fall to pieces. The only reason my girlfriend rides is because I encouraged her by buying her a bike.

I'm sure if it wasn't him, it would have been me. I like a well placed rude word or two.

Q: When riding to work I often see women cycling with their headphones in, filtering down the side of lorries and generally being dangerous. It's common knowledge that proportionally female cyclists are killed more often than male cyclists. So... How do I tell them to stop without sounding like a patronising prick?

Bloody good question. What if you just hit them with the truth and sod the consequences? It's a (sad) fact that statistically women are more at risk of injury or death on a bicycle than men.

I remember ages ago having a word with a young lady on a scooter (I was on my motorbike at the time) because she wasn't wearing any gloves but had perfectly manicured hands. We'd stopped at some lights and I asked her what the first thing you do is if you fall over? Put your hands out to save yourself. Then said it's no different if you come off a motorbike or scooter and she had such pretty hands it would be a pity if they got mashed up. She seemed to take it in. I may have come across as some sort of patronising hand-fetishist but what the hell it was sound advice.

Q: When riding to work I often see women cycling with their headphones in, filtering down the side of lorries and generally being dangerous. It's common knowledge that proportionally female cyclists are killed more often than male cyclists. So... How do I tell them to stop without sounding like a patronising prick?

Been thinking about this too. What about a small card you can hand out to them? Sometimes there's not time even for a brief chat if the lights are about to turn green. And on a card there could be illustration and what not

Also that can be read and taken in without some know-it-all prick telling you you're a shit cyclist at a red light

I don't want to get into a debate about this but I just wanted to state that in 2008 there were 10 men killed while cycling in London and only 3 women. In 2007, 10 men, 4 women. So far this year it's 5 men and 3 women.

2009 there were more women. I'm not denying this. I just want people to understand that it wasn't a typical year, as the media seems to have painted it.

Bloody good question. What if you just hit them with the truth and sod the consequences? It's a (sad) fact that statistically women are more at risk of injury or death on a bicycle than men.

Women are statistically safer riders than men. They are less involved in collisions and have a lower risk of injury. The only area where they come to statistical prominence is in left hooks with lorries. Why this is the case is unexplained. Don't believe the urban myth that it's because they're more likely to obey red lights. No factor has been shown to be at play conclusively.

I can dig out figures if people are interested, but on this one we have to wait to know more.

Of course you see women doing stupid things in traffic, but then you see far more men doing stupid things in traffic. This country hasn't really cycled for 40-50 years and there's a huge training backlog which we're only just beginning to address. By all appearances, women are making more use of this offer than men.

^^^ And what TB said.

Perhaps this debate / discussion should live in another thread

my card idea though would apply to all. Tbh I think men would be even harder to talk to about safe cycling at a set of red lights

@jaygee, Tika, someone else mentioned that as well. I agree but we need to pass on the comment to VB.

Guys, there are many discussions on lorries and women cyclists on the forum.

So my view: the women cyclists who were killed by lorries were experienced cyclists and the driver was found at fault on the cases that I have heard of or sometimes there was no explanation. So maybe we could turn this around and ask what is the male driver's perspective on female cyclists?

But then again this discussion won't take us very far. Just think when you are on your bike and what is your perception of other road users and how you treat people differently because of your assumptions.

We should probably start a 'Women's Safety in Traffic' thread. Care to start one, Claire or Nhatt? A good deal of this, I think will need to be dedicated to myth-busting. You won't believe how hard urban myths are to work on once they've been established.

I don't want to get into a debate about this but I just wanted to state that in 2008 there were 10 men killed while cycling in London and only 3 women. In 2007, 10 men, 4 women. So far this year it's 5 men and 3 women.

2009 there were more women. I'm not denying this. I just want people to understand that it wasn't a typical year, as the media seems to have painted it.

I should start by saying I ahve no facts here at ll and this is just gues work but...

I'd bet that proportionally more women die per mile of cyclcing than men even if more men are dying there are definitely more male miles being ridden hence my point.

Also not in mood for debate, just a musing I posted on a seperate thread.

As for telling people about the dangers of undertaking lorries etc - I do this as I don't want to see fellow cyclists killed. One thing I have observed is that the women who I've spoken to when this type of thing has happened, they've all (without exception) taken on board my advice (or at least appeared to) and had a reasonable conversation about it unlike the men who either know better 'I do it all the time' or take massive offence as if I've accused them of being a paedophile or something.

Now I'm not aware that my approach is any different when raising this issue with men or women but their reactions are quite eye opening.

It makes me very, very cross when I see any cyclist wearing headphones, particularly massive over-the-ear ones.

Shall we say positive things instead of the usal banter about how bad other people are.

YouTube- Beautiful Ladies (in honour of Chris de Burgh

Q: When riding to work I often see men cycling with their headphones in, filtering down the side of lorries and generally being dangerous. So... How do I tell them to stop without sounding like a patronising chick?

I have similar dilemma

Lying I'm afraid is a good way to get the message across.

people never realise how dangerous this and that until they've met someone who had a close friend die under a HGV.

as much as I hate to admit it, it work far better than telling them it's dangerous to undertake HGV.

It makes me very, very cross when I see any cyclist wearing headphones, particularly massive over-the-ear ones.

you're going to pop your collar when you see me then...

No, Tiswas, you're wrong*.

*I might be lying

I can't say I notice women cyclists being any more dangerous than men. I've spoken to two people recently having seen them filter down the inside of buses; one man, one woman. Both were appreciative of the point; the man even stopped me a little way up the road to thank me again.
He was also wearing headphones; I didn't bring this up. For one thing I like to listen to music on the bike occasionally and for another I think it is too general a point to bring up in that situation. Advice is only going to have an effect if you can point to something specific they have done; like filtering alongside a large vehicle or not looking behind before they turned in front of you.
Also as I have mentioned on the Cycle Training forum the majority of people coming for free training through Tower Hamlets recently have been women: they don't seem hampered by foolish pride from recognising that they might have something to learn. Generally what they lack is confidence. But confidence and competence are not the same thing and the most reckless cycling I see tends to be by young men who are too sure of themselves. Perhaps the key word there is 'young'.