Cycling in car parks...where do we stand legally?

Good day to all...

As some of you know, there's a regular tricks evening that happens every Tuesday at White's Row car park in Spitalfields. This tricks night, dubbed 'TrixieDix' amongst other names, has been going on for at least two years, providing hipsters, wannabes and everyone in between with a safe enclosed space to practice and learn basic tricks. I have been going to the night for over a year, and without it I wouldn't have met some of the good friends I have now, and wouldn't have learned how to skid, trackstand or wheelie without breaking my face on a car bonnet.

The space has been excellent, as the 24-hour car park has no cars on the top 3 floors, and is monitored by cctv and walking fluorescent-clad security, who nod to us and haven't caused any problems. Up until now.

The security people, apparently, have been*** getting complaints from residents about us being up on the carpark top floor***, and have been moving us along the last few times we've been there, threatening to call the cops if we don't move. This is very sucky, since the majority of us are responsible adults who just want to ride our bikes in peace. The rest of us are responsible young people; either way I don't think there's enough evidence to suggest we are anto-social or a nuisance!

The car park is owned by the City of London and monitored by the security company Apcoa.

I've read around, and I gather the only way we could be moved on is if they have proof of anti-social behaviour (ASB), which at the very vaguest would involve us causing criminal damage or causing 'distress' to people. The police would have to then issue public notice* of a Dispersal Zone, of which, as far as I can gather, there is not in the area. For the under 18s of us that gather there, should a Dispersal Zone be enforced, the police may escort the person home between the hours of 9pm and 6am, under curfew laws. Not sure about the adults.

So, I'm not sure that the council/security/police are legally allowed to move us on.

I really want to fight this, and kinda in a position where my voice would get heard (since I'm an adult with a career and business cards etc, yet I'm technically still a 'young person', being 24 years old). I have the details of the person to contact to dispute this issue, but I want to make sure I come at them with some evidence first before I open the can of worms. What do people think? Would someone from the LCC be able to advise me?

Thanks for reading, tis a long post!

:) Tash (aka Natasher; I do not have a moustache)

*EDIT: Just found this on the Tower Hamlets website:
The aim of dispersal zones is to address anti-social behaviour within the defined area
covering parts of Spitalfields and Weavers wards.
The Dispersal Zone is in operation Thursday, Friday and Saturday evening between
6pm and 2am from 23rd July 2009 to 30th August 2009

THIS IS OUT OF DATE AND DOESN'T SPECIFY TUESDAYS!

I'm sad to hear this, Tash. I know I haven't been along recently but it's a great place and we cause absolutely no trouble whatsoever. Let me know if I can help at all.

In some areas the police have the right to disperse groups of over 10, 5 or even 2 people! I've seen signs.

Are you sure you're not making too much noise?

gay i wanted to start going to this if i got into ucl pending my results in august.. :(

Is it just a few NIMBYs causing the complaints? I don't remember being able to see into any private residences from that roof...

Can't you formalise Trixie and then go and badger the City Bridge Trust - they're the Trust that administers grants from the City of London, and with their backing you'd be pretty secure.

They run a green-ish grant programme. I'm sure you could argue that cycling forms part of a lower carbon emission London. Deets here:

http://www.bridgehousegrants.org.uk/CityBridgeTrust/Grants/GrantsProgrammeGuidelines/Londons+Environment+-+new.htm

Why not just find somewhere else.. then go back when you get kicked out of there too?

Pesky skateboarders.. not in my back yard!

gay

What has sexual preference got to do with this please?
#quiteangry

Tash, this probably won't help much but people have been doing this in a Peckham carpark for years and latterly playing polo for a few years too. The wardens come round all the time and as long as we're not (seen to be) drinking, it's not a problem.
This might change soon however as they're re-opening the bar on the roof, so I guess it would be hand for us to know where we stand also.

Is there no other area you could go, or could you speak to the locals? We did this at South polo as they were complaining about us. We had a word and came to a solution so it's fine now.

Good luck!

[QUOTE]In some areas the police have the right to disperse groups of over 10, 5 or even 2 people! I've seen signs.

Are you sure you're not making too much noise?[QUOTE]

The areas have to be prenotified areas of dispersal,as far as I can gather, and there are no signs. By noise do you mean actually sound, or do you mean fuss? If it's the former, then noise restrictions apply aftre the hours of 9pm anyway, which is usually after we've all left anyway

Thanks Wicksie, it might be worth me doing that, talking to the locals (there's a few penthouse style apartments that the topfloor of the carpark overlooks)

And cheers snowy_again, that might be an idea, I'll look into that too

And neither do I appreciate the use of the word gay as a pejorative

What has sexual preference got to do with this please?
#quiteangry

He means gay as in ghey. It's like how the american use of faggot has changed, or is changing, from meaning homosexual to just "being a faggot".

There are flats and things up to one level lower than the car park, but we do sometimes go down a level. I reckon it's the guy who likes to walk around his flat naked and he feels we're all looking at him. But to be fair, there are loads of offices looking in his window as well!

He means gay as in ghey. It's like how the american use of faggot has changed, or is changing, from meaning homosexual to just "being a faggot".

Yes, we know, it's a shame he doesn't.

Anyway, this is about our freedom to trix (and polo).

i have absolutely no idea if this would be useful, but maybe talk to the citizens advice bureau? the name sounds appropriate and it's free.

He means gay as in ghey. It's like how the american use of faggot has changed, or is changing, from meaning homosexual to just "being a faggot".

my grandpa made me eat a faggot the other day. damn homophobe.

Is it just a few NIMBYs causing the complaints?

seeing as the tricks night has been up there two years now, during which time several different security guards have patrolled and managers have come down to see what was going on and left happy, it would seem it's a few people who have joined the neighbourhood recently and have only just realised paying extortionate rent for a swanky city pad doesn't get you your own private Idaho (gay reference unintended). two years of board meetings in the offices opposite; two years of life after work in the apartments.

You can't hear shit from street level; there is no real way you can tell what's going on up there unless you know about it, which is one of the reasons it's worked so well. in the past we've been given the impression that our starting of the night meant the security guards had an easier time of things on tuesdays with the smack heads jacking up and the local hookers with tricks of their own.

I'm with you on this one Pajamas. We help the security guards cos there's never anyone else there when we are, which must mean we're scaring off the skag heads.

maybe it's the smackheads and prozzers who have complained!

Yeah, cos they're shit at wheelies Phil, and can never find a vein on a rubino...

Actually is Scoble a secret substance misuser? All the signs are there.

Its private ground not public highway i think.

But as usual stop having such fun, stop smiling and meeting people stay at home and watch britains got talent and then die in your own crapulence.

OK, I'm gonna draft an email to the dept of Environmental Services, City of London; this is the business card that security gave me yesterday evening to write to. Hopefully I'll hear something back soonish

I'll post the letter on here when I'm done and before I send i

anyway - i guess this is all just chat talking about why we're not hurting anybody - tash i would be very happy to help try and put our case for it being allowed to continue to the City of London. I have a feeling it's equally as likely that it's come about because they have only just caught up with what's been going on in their car park for the last couple of years and now someone's feeling pointlessly officious about 'that sort of thing' going on there. Perhaps the first step is to ask who has been complaining - it's an easy thing to come up with as a reason when there aren't any.

shame though cos if we engage in the bureaucracy of it all we'll probably still lose it spiritually (ie the night will fragment).

He means gay as in ghey. It's like how the american use of faggot has changed, or is changing, from meaning homosexual to just "being a faggot".

yeah sorry thats just me being an ineducated yout, i have nothing against peoples sexual preferences

another carpark perhaps?

Why move somewhere else?

TD has proved itself to be self managing and not anti social, in fact it's creating something positive that the LA / CoL doesn't have to pay for. Move it somewhere else, and as Phil says, you're in danger of losing the point of it.

Too true Pajamas, I'm doing this with a heavy heart since I think it may be a pointless venture. Although, as long as people keep going to it, maybe it won't totally fizzle out? Sigh