Which BB for White Industries Single Speed Cranks?

I really like the looks of White Industries Single Speed Cranks. However, the bottom bracket causes some confusion. White Industries doesn’t make bottom bracket that would give a proper chainline with their cranks, which is surprising (!).

I contacted them, and they suggested a 103 mm Phil Wood JIS bottom bracket. I’m looking for something slightly cheaper, any suggestions?

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=which+bottom+bracket+for+white+industries+cranks

Depends what you mean by "a proper chainline"?

On their website they suggest a 113 - which is also what their BBs are...

http://www.whiteind.com/techcorner/crankinstructions.html
http://www.whiteind.com/bottombrackets.html

I plumped for a 111 Phil, as I knew that it would give me a small amount of adjustability either way.

I wouldn't have been able to get away with a 103 I don't think. Either the lockring would foul on the shell or the ring on the stay...

I don't really get spiderless cranks. What are the advantages of these White ones, apart from the fact the look really nice?

I actually think the double/double is really wicked too, a truly Sheldon idea.

In my case I wanted to switch to an eccentric eno hub to open up some other frame options, plus I'd been annoyed with creaking crank bolts, mangling knuckles tightening them, and chain tight-spots (not to mention the previous spidered crank cracking fatally)...

Ach, who am I kidding? You got me, it was love at first sight.

For shame...

Haha your honesty is touching.

I love them, and am looking for cranks for a new bike I'm planning ... but I can't really justify switching patterns, when I have all these 144bcd chainrings already. So I'm going to stick to Campag or get some Suginos I think. (In fact, come to that, I can't really justify buying new cranks at all ... ahem.)

I'll try to be more specific, I'm planning to use the following parts:

• Brick Lane Bikes Track frame
  

• White Industries track hubs (42mm chainline)

• http://www.whiteind.com/trackhubset.html

• White Industries single speed cranks

• http://www.whiteind.com/cranks/singlespeedcranks.html

Have I totally misunderstood the chain line discussion, isn't the only way to get a straight chain line to choose a BB with correct axle length?

In this particular case, I got an email answer from White Industries that I should use a hub with a 103 mm axle.

Rod, what hub do you use?

I don't think you've misunderstood it Bikebuilder but you might be trying fit a square peg into a round hole... :)

I use a White Ind Eno hub which gives a 47.5 chainline (middle ring for an mtb I believe). White say their Eno cranks give a 47.5 chainline with a 113 BB. I used an el cheapo 113 BB to verify this and reckoned it was about 48 - then went for a 111 Phil knowing I had enough clearance and could tweak the chainline around 2mm if required (it wasn't in the end)

This only leaves me with about 3mm for the lockring to clear the shell - so I don't think a 103 would work for me. I guess White would know better though...

Have a look at this thread....

[ame="http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=320547"]What bb to use with WI Eno Crank? - Mtbr.com Forums[/ame]

Some heated debate on there about what BB is required - with one chap vociferously stating you must use a 122(!) but most admitting that 110+ would be ok.

Unfortunately, when I was asking around, the general advice was always to try it out with a cheap BB first - hardly ideal I know :(

P.S I notice you say you are using Track hubs - you know the White Ind chainrings only go up to 44t, right?

Sorry that turned into a bit of a ramble...

To clarify - White are mathematically correct about the 103. As that would give you a 42.5 chainline based on their figures - and using a Phil would allow you to tweak that to 42 easily.

I'm just not sure they could guarantee that gives enough clearance for the lockring or chainring though?

Thanks Ron for your insights, do you think that a 103mm Sugino BB would work with my configuration?

Regarding the chainring, I’m planning to use the 44T chainring that you refer to with a 18T cog and 170mm cranks. Since I’m not very familiar with optimal gear ratios I would very much welcome any advice or suggestions.

Thanks Ron for your insights, do you think that a 103mm Sugino BB would work with my configuration?

Regarding the chainring, I’m planning to use the 44T chainring that you refer to with a 18T cog and 170mm cranks. Since I’m not very familiar with optimal gear ratios I would very much welcome any advice or suggestions.

A 44 tooth chainring is more than enough. Track cogs go down to 13t and a 44 * 13 would be pushing it for anyone on the road at 88 gear inches.

On the the hand 44 * 18 is on the low side at 64 GI and is what I use on my off road bike and can get a bit spinny on the road if you are new to it.

An average gearing is around 70 GI, so either 17 for 68 or 16 for 72.

Yup 44 x 16 is what I use, but then I'm no trackie...

Bikebuilder, the Sugino, or any JIS square taper BB, would be functionally ok for your requirements and 103 is the mathematically correct length for your chosen chainline if using an Eno.

I still have big concerns about clearance though I'm afraid. Googling around I can't seem to find anyone running a BB that narrow - in fact, the only reference I could find was from someone on another forum saying it wouldn't work...

http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch/browse_thread/thread/8ab5a17a67afc798

White have instructions on their site regarding chainring and crank clearance...

http://www.whiteind.com/techcorner/crankinstructions.html
http://www.whiteind.com/images/ENO_CHAIN_RING_CLEARANCE_GUIDE.pdf

I'd be worried that they repeatedly mention that you may need to use a BB bigger than 113 to achieve clearance (and don't even cover the possibility of using one narrower than this).

The LFGSS transmission DB also has a few details of Eno user setups and it seems 110 is the smallest being used.

http://www.londonfgss.com/thread3372-6.html#post1091211

My personal opinion is that even a 107 might be pushing it...

If you have direct communications open with White, could you ask them for their opinion on achieving lockring, chainring and crank clearance with a BB that narrow? I would assume you aren't the first person to try and achieve a 42mm chainline with their cranks?! :)

Ron, thanks for raising the potential problem of crank clearance.

I’ve studied the White Industries instruction and taken some measures. The instructions say that ”… measure from the center of the BB shell back along the chainstay 180mm. At that point, measure across the stays. Your measurement should be from the outside of the stay to the opposing outside stay. If the measurement is 135mm or less, use a 113mm BB.”

Given that the measure on my frame is 104 mm, I guess that a 103 mm BB shouldn’t cause clearance problems. Is my reasoning correct?

Sounds ok to me for the crank arm yeah.

However, in order to run the 44t chainring they say you need 85mm width limit, 92mm from the BB line. Bear in mind you would be bringing all these measurements 5mm closer on each side so you'll need nearer to 75mm to have it covered by their standards.

Then that just leaves the pesky lockring (which was the issue I was originally most concerned about - and is the problem they refer to in the other forum links).

And just to add to the evidence that this is not an exact science - here's a guy who claims to be using a 107 bb for a 43mm chainline. Possibly moved off centre with a Phil BB??

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ride/471935577/in/photostream/

Hopefully this pic will illustrate what I'm driving at...

Try to overlook the poor quality and generally shocking level of filth - I can't face cleaning it or finding a proper camera right now I'm afraid! :)

This is the lockring clearance I have using a 111 BB - so you would be bringing this 4mm closer I think. You can probably see why I have concerns about it working - it's gonna be a tight squeeze methinks?

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The width of the chain stays measures 80mm on my frame, measured 92mm from the center of the bottom bracket, i.e. assuming a 44T chain ring. This 80mm is too much, based on the White Industries standards. What are my options?

If you want a straight chain line, given that the rear track hub has a 42mm chainline, I cannot use another length BB, can I?

Doesn’t this chain ring clearance issue apply to all other brands of hubs, cranks and chain rings as well? A 44T chain ring won’t fit my frame I want a 42mm chainline, will it?

I’m puzzled, is it really so that the frame (Brick Lane Bikes Track Frame 53cm) is incompatible with track hubs that have a 42mm chainline and chain rings that have 44T?

Bikebuilder, my understanding of the potential issue is not chainring clearance as a 44t ring is on the small side and the bike should take it at 42mm as you say.
The problem is with the Eno crank arm tapers I believe. With a 103 bb length you would not be able to tighten the crank up enough before it hit the bb cup, possibly due to thickness of crank arm/depth of taper in arm. This is not a problem for the cranks intended use for an MTB where chainline is further out.

What about a spacer behind the sprocket and using a larger BB?

White Industries uses a splined interface for the cog. Thus, it may or may not be possible to add a spacer.

A very general observation on chain ring clearance: shouldn’t the distance between the chain stays, outside to outside, be smaller than 2 x chainline at the chain rings edge?

On my frame, the distance between the chain stays is 80mm 93mm from the BB (= radius of a 44T chain ring). Thus, with a 42mm chainline it is not, even in theory, possible to fit a 44T chain ring when accounting for the fact that the chain ring is a few mm tick, or is it?

Have I missed some crucial point? This is the first fixed gear bike I’m building and the chainline issue gives me gray hair.

Does seem close. Can you contact BLB and ask them if their frame can use a 42mm chainline? If it can't then doesn't sound like much of a 'track' frame as 42mm is pretty standard.

The underlying problem is that the chainset is intended for MTB isn't it? Much the same as say a Middleburn Uno which I was thinking of, would require a very small BB axle to get anywhere near the correct chainline as was designed for a 52 or whatever an MTB is.

80mm would probably be ok BikeBuilder (mine looks to be similar). I assume White's calculations are based on giving a cautious guarantee of a 5mm gap which would be fine on an MTB but unusual on a track bike (my previous chainring was so close it would scrape the paint when honking up hills!).

Kerley is right though - it's much more likely that you won't be able to tighten the crank arm down properly without it (or, in this case, the lockring) hitting the cup.

Let us know the results anyway Bikebuilder. Rather you take the costs of the trial and error than me :-)

I may be in the market for a 34t Eno crankset if/when I get fed up with replacing my external BB every few months* and I would also be after a 42 chainline.

( *may be caused by needing to face frame but not sure I believe that should be necessary!)

Let us know the results anyway Bikebuilder. Rather you take the costs of the trial and error than me :-)

haha yes please do!

I may be coming across as a miserably pessimistic sod in this thread but secretly I'd love to know for sure whether it would work or not...

(I just don't want anyone ending up with £300 worth of kit they can't use) :(

Was there every any resolution to this? I know I had problems when trying to achieve a 42mm chainline with middleburns.

i'm going to try a pair of these out with a miche primato. at least i'll have a little adjustability and it isn't too much to splash out on. i'll report back on my findings.