Legality of overtaking cyclists

On my fixed-gear I generally keep up with traffic or overtake it (in the city, not the countryside) but on my hybrid I toddle about at 10mph. When I turn right I do what the Highway Code tells me and throw out an arm as an indicator, but very often the cars just buzz past me anyway, until I decide I’ve had enough and begin to edge out.

What’s the legality of overtaking cyclists? If they did this to another car it would be crazy and clearly dangerous driving, but are we considered fellow road users? Do cars overtake cyclists, or just pass them?

Basically what I'm asking is, are cars in the wrong by passing an indicating cyclist?

I normally get quite angry about it and turn my indicator into a single middle digit when it becomes clear that they're coming straight past.

Cyclists are considered fellow road users and i would say legally a car has to give way.

Basically what I'm asking is, are cars in the wrong by passing an indicating cyclist?

Theoretically yes, but don't expect a prosecution out of it. There's no habitual expectation and you could just be indicating to come out round a hazard.

Dominate the road a bit more. Ease out a little bit if you can, check your shoulder, look for a space, indicated, turn it into a thumbs up (as if you're grateful that they've agreed to give you a gap), pull across to the centre line and hold it until you need to turn. Most motorists will accept this kind of manouver gracefully.

Don't know the legality but I don't have the problem you describe either. I try to make sure you make eye contact and hold out my hand and find people are pretty good.

EDIT: waht SK says.

as tiswas said, put yourself in an assertive position on the road to avoid them cutting you up as you turn otherwise hang back and let them go first. it will only cost you 10-15 seconds.

I find eye contact is actually more effective than signalling. Sometimes I change lanes/overtake without signalling at all but make clear and consistent eye contact with the driver behind. Have never got beeped at for this, although have got beeped at for much more legitimate things (e.g. daring to take up a whole lane in front of some taxi cnut).

Its not always possible to take the lane. In these situations I find looking over your shoulder a few times is sometimes enough to tell the approaching driver you intend to pull out. I always look a few times before I stick my arm out and have had people let me pull across lanes without having to indicate. I try to give people a little wave to say thanks too, they're more likely to let the next cyclist go if you are nice about it.

The advice to be assertive is good advice, but I am more than assertive on the road. Like I said, on the fixed I'm overtaking traffic myself, and on the hybrid I tower above drivers and am not scared into the gutter. Thing is, I live off quite a fast-flowing road and have to turn right. Cars approach at 40mph and I'm slowing for my junction. Occasionally they just keep blasting past, and once one car has done it and you've slowed a tad, more tend to follow.

I'm far from a meek rider, but sometimes it just so happens that you get overlooked and the road is way too fast and congested to just muscle out.

I know it's not the end of the world, just frustrating that (most) cars would never dream of swerving around the right of a car indicating right, but will happily ignore a cyclist. Just wanted to make 100% sure I was in the right by giving them all the finger...

The finger is always the cyclist legal right. We are superior.

it's only difficult if you don't know your way and miss the start of the turn, you usually need to start looking behind, and indicating very early, to give drivers time to let you in, or in some cases to give yourself time to force a gap if they won't let you in. Much harder if you have to cross two lanes of traffic moving the same way, you must take the lane with plenty of time.

cycle training specifically addresses such issues.

if you cannot turn right or cars are over taking you then your road position is not assertive enough

i was really surprised at how much road they encouraged me to take up

I appreciate all this advice about being assertive, but I assure you I'm not a meek rider. If you're 100 yards from your turn-off and you indicate and look behind for eye-contact and none is forthcoming and the cars blast past you at 40mph and the gimp behind follows the gimp behind, etc, then there is, occasionally, a period where you can't get out.

I'm not sitting there in the gutter, but likewise I'm not going to cycle so far out that I block the only lane of traffic on a 40mph road for 3 miles... Especially in a suit on a hybrid when I struggle to maintain double-digit speed.

+1 on looking right around and facing the car behind, making eye contact with the driver usually works. They tend to think you're going to do something then, and the arm out makes the intention even clearer. I can see this is going to be harder on a hybrid, so don't know what the answer is there.

I often don't go right over to the centre line, because that encourages drivers to think they can squeeze past to your left. I take up the centre point of where a car would be if it was taking a right. I think there's some law that vehicles coming out at a single lane junction should do so one at a time (regardless of whether it's a bike or car or whatever), so you're within your rights to take the lane.

difficult without seeing where you mean.
its not always poss to make eye contact.like, er most of winter dark.
good advice above, Im guessing the gradient makes it harder because speeds higher. if it is a double carriageway easier because you can travel at speed whilst traffic maintains theirs undertaking you. guessing its single lane.
best way is to just make that move across earlier, maintaining speed, whilst regularly checking over shoulder-if that means that you slow the traffic stream behind you so be it-you have the rights of any other vehicle and if it were a car they would all slow to a stop to allow the vehicle to turn.so fuck em.politely they can wait a minute.

Sparky

One of the things cycle training made me aware of is that I have the right to make myself safe on the roads. By taking the dominant position you make yourself more visible to other drivers. They then have the right the right to overtake you if they wish to and can do so safely.

By regularly looking behind myself and making eye contact with the driver behind they tend to start relating to me as a human being rather than just another bloody cyclist in their way. If you wish you can look behind you and pull in a little towards the inside to help them overtake. This enables you can continue to defend your position for when you need to move across and make the right turn.

I have the right to position myself in such a way that I am most visible to the cars behind, but by interacting with them, keeping regular eye contact and giving clear signals I can keep this amicable and avoid giving the drivers behind any unexpected surprises.

Since the training I find that car drivers are more tolerant of my taking a stronger position on the road as I am maintaining a non verbal dialogue with them.

Rather than being a cyclist blocking their path and not giving them any indication that I am aware of their presence or acknowledging them behind me, I am another human being, smiling and informing them of what I am doing. This has made a huge difference to my experience on the road.

I am now more part of the traffic and also have greater control of what is going on around me. Because I am frequently the front of the queue of traffic my cycling is smoother and faster. The chances are here in London (am not sure where you are based) that we will all come to traffic lights again pretty soon so their racing past will not get them anywhere faster.

On my fixed-gear I generally keep up with traffic or overtake it (in the city, not the countryside) but on my hybrid I toddle about at 10mph. When I turn right I do what the Highway Code tells me and throw out an arm as an indicator, but very often the cars just buzz past me anyway, until I decide I’ve had enough and begin to edge out.

Can you go into this in a bit more detail? Do you just stick your arm out?

As others have mentioned, try and make eye contact with the driver. Take an arm off the bars if need be and turn your body, so they can see what you're trying to day and you have a clearer view. Once eye contact is made, *then *stick yer arm out.

Sorry if I [st]missed something[/st] sound particularly patronising.

It's not just about being assertive sparky, no one is saying you are being meek. It's more try slight variations on what you are doing and you may get better results. I ride on 40 mph + roads too and it's not just about being bold / aggressive.

Sparky

One of the things cycle training made me aware of is that I have the right to make myself safe on the roads. By taking the dominant position you make yourself more visible to other drivers. They then have the right the right to overtake you if they wish to and can do so safely.

By regularly looking behind myself and making eye contact with the driver behind they tend to start relating to me as a human being rather than just another bloody cyclist in their way. If you wish you can look behind you and pull in a little towards the inside to help them overtake. This enables you can continue to defend your position for when you need to move across and make the right turn.

I have the right to position myself in such a way that I am most visible to the cars behind, but by interacting with them, keeping regular eye contact and giving clear signals I can keep this amicable and avoid giving the drivers behind any unexpected surprises.

Since the training I find that car drivers are more tolerant of my taking a stronger position on the road as I am maintaining a non verbal dialogue with them.

Rather than being a cyclist blocking their path and not giving them any indication that I am aware of their presence or acknowledging them behind me, I am another human being, smiling and informing them of what I am doing. This has made a huge difference to my experience on the road.

I am now more part of the traffic and also have greater control of what is going on around me. Because I am frequently the front of the queue of traffic my cycling is smoother and faster. The chances are here in London (am not sure where you are based) that we will all come to traffic lights again pretty soon so their racing past will not get them anywhere faster.

Great advice.

Alternatively I find that bizarrely....when holding a machete in my indicating hand, no cars seem to overtake me....ever.

CJ

Have you had the training yet?

cycle training specifically addresses such issues.

if you cannot turn right or cars are over taking you then your road position is not assertive enough

i was really surprised at how much road they encouraged me to take up

I have always subscribed to that belief since i was hit off by an overtaking lorry back in 2001, funnily enough having had an incident free 8 years, the same day this thread starts someone pulled the most ridiculuous overtake on me i have ever experienced (i have a pretty boring commute).

20 yards from turning right on a mini r'bout in Heston, me well on the right of the lane (assertive?) and hand signalling right, some fucker thinks that they must still overtake me, and goes way out into the other side of the road passing within 2 inches of my handlebars, before cutting back in front of me with only a couple of yards until the road divider at the r'bout entrance, me having thumped on the passenger window and let off some choice obscenities at them, and hoping to find them further up the road wrapped round a lamppost in some form of divine retribution as was seen in richmond park with that bmw last weekend...