Thermolite vs Merino

I want to buy a couple of things, arm warmers and base layer, for the winter and after the market research I always end up with the same indecision, Merino wool or thermolite fabric. Both are in a similar range of price, maybe merino a bit more, but just a bit.

What is the general opinion, what is best, why?
thanks for your opinion.

Rik

I'm currently sitting at the comp in an Endura BaaBaa base layer. In a word. it's brilliant. I've been wearing it on and off for about a week, it has got no odours at all and is in fact quite breathable (compared to Merino which is a bit sweaty and pongy).

It's extremely comfortable and well fitting.

Most importantly it is VERY warm!

Hope that helps.

P.S. I do have a thermolite fleece and leggings, and although comfy on the bike, I wouldn't want to be sitting around in either for anytime at all.

OKays, wierd. I find Merino better than Thermolite for the smells.

The only drawback to Merino is its incredibly fragile. I haven't worn my thermalite as much, and maybe they're just as weak, but it seriously gets me that of the 5 baselayers I bought last winter, all but 1 have hole in them.

I'm similarly sitting here in an icebreaker merino top. It's 4 years old and has about 8 holes in it! Otherwise it's brilliant :-) Seriously, I don't think I'd buy anything else - yes, it's a little more fragile than synthetics (I have other synthetics going back years and still going strong!), but the odour control is outstanding and I love the feel of it next to your skin.

I wear an extremely thin microlayer polyster vest all year round. In the winter I wear a thin merino layer on top of this. I find it works well

been wearing merino baselayers (the baabaa and the rapha) since the summer and they've been really comfortable. oh...and i have washed them since the summer, to clarify. all are in excellent condition and i just dump them into the 30 degree was with non-bio.

I find the high quality artificial stuff is much better at wicking and faster drying, however I like the fact merino is warm even when you're only wearing a thin layer of it.
At the moment I am wearing a HH Lifa Base Layer, with a North Face Merino wool layer over the top, this and a shell jacket for the really cold days is more than warm enough for me in the winter, and I stay dry also with this combo, even when getting pretty sweaty.

I wear a Caprina(?) base layer. It's a long sleeve synthetic layer which does really help me to keep warm. The problem with it is sweat. When i get sweaty it feels disgusting and unnatural on my skin, whenever i get off my bike, i literally cannot wait to get it off me.
I'm looking for something relatively cheap, but that really works when it comes to extracting sweat away from my body - from the above it sounds like Merino might be the best choice for me...?

I wear a Caprina(?) base layer. It's a long sleeve synthetic layer which does really help me to keep warm. The problem with it is sweat. When i get sweaty it feels disgusting and unnatural on my skin, whenever i get off my bike, i literally cannot wait to get it off me.
I'm looking for something relatively cheap, but that really works when it comes to extracting sweat away from my body - from the above it sounds like Merino might be the best choice for me...?

Merino is really good stuff, the problem i've found though is when it gets wet it takes longer to dry than my HellyHansen Synthetic base layers, this means if you're sweating a lot, or its humid, or raining a little bit, you will get colder faster in a merino layer from windchill, however merino is better at insulating, just not as good at keeping you dry.
Its horses for courses, i've found one Merino over the top of a synthetic to be the "ultimate combo" in the winter, its what I wear when I go snowboarding as well, you get the best of both worlds, good wicking performance and decent warmth.
Sometimes though I just wear the synthetic and throw my jacket over the top, since I don't seem to suffer the cold as badly as most people.
I'd get one of each at least anyway, one base layer is never enough, I must have 5 or 6 now I think....

Also these come very highly rated by a lot of people: http://www.outdoormania.co.uk/Item-0-0-cat-7-brand-760-Helly_Hansen_Odin_High_Neck.aspx

Easily the equivalent warmth wise of a couple of base layers, but with less bulk.

Combines the best of both worlds:

Lifa + Merino > Merino IMO

I don't have that problem with merino (staying damp). I mean, yes it remains slightly damp to the touch but it does keep you snug, which is the key thing.

Of the synthetics, the only one I really like and can live with is Patagonia Capilene. Very nice on the skin, wicks extremely well, very durable, and no longer term smell problems, although you can't wear it as much as merino between washes.

Can't stand HH thermals, find them extremely uncomfortable and, after some use, the odour is impossible to get rid of. Plus super unstylish IMO!

When I was younger I got to try a lot of these base layers and technical clothing out, and test them, borrow them as I worked for an outdoor clothing/adventure shop, even got a one-off sample piece of Gore Windstopper clothing back at home before it was released :)
I don't think I ever came across another base-layer that matched the wicking performance of HH (and I tried a few), also with socks if you want the best socks for the winter go for some by Wigwam, I have some of their Ultimax Ski/snowboard socks with OUTLAST™, still the best socks out there.

merino rules

synthetics take on perma stench so despite cleaning every time they are used they smell within a few minutes of being put on

the quality of the merino will also affect its performance and longevity, my endura base layer is not as nice as my rapha one, so is used less often yet has bobbled more.

the stench effect is down to your skin, its pH and the bacteria you carry, so some people are fine with synthetics

one of merinos differences to synthetics is that it will hold more water but despite holding the water it still insulates very well

you get what you pay for, buy merino if you can afford it

Courant, what are you using to wash your base layers?
I only use NikWax Base wash or Wool Wash, and i've owned my HH layers for 3 years with no Odour problems, why people wear base-layers for more than 2-3 days at a time is beyond me anyways, wash them you dirty bastards!

For the merino and lycra and stuff, I just use a very mild non-bio. I now only own 1 HH-esque poly-propelene top which I have to hot wash with nasty detergent to get clean, and even then it's a bit smelly.

Base-layers for more than 2 days... never been touring, or camping?! 5 days in my merino top on a climbing trip was the longest between washes - despite lots of physical exertion and sleeping in it, it was still passable* at the end. Long lasting thermals are a real bonus, because you only have to buy a couple to see you good.

(*at least relative to the rest of me!)

merino rules

synthetics take on perma stench so despite cleaning every time they are used they smell within a few minutes of being put on

the quality of the merino will also affect its performance and longevity, my endura base layer is not as nice as my rapha one, so is used less often yet has bobbled more.

the stench effect is down to your skin, its pH and the bacteria you carry, so some people are fine with synthetics

one of merinos differences to synthetics is that it will hold more water but despite holding the water it still insulates very well

you get what you pay for, buy merino if you can afford it

I think Synthetics only take on a perma-stench if you don't wash them with decent stuff, after selling all this kinda shizzle to people for nearly 4 years when I was younger, anytime I recommended someone use a decent anti-bacterial wash their base-layers stopped smelling like shit all the time, amazing eh!
Good quality merino is great, good quality synthetic material is great, but they need to be treated accordingly, and anything thats spending that much time being sweated in should be washed in a decent anti-bacterial base layer wash if you want to stay hygenic.
Also bear in mind that each material has its plus points and different uses, for instance in the height of summer, I wouldn't wear Merino Wool unless I wanted to be swimming in my own sweat and feel constantly moist, likewise in the winter I wouldn't wear just a synthetic unless I wanted to be freezing my arse off all the time.
This is why most top end base-layers, designed for heavy physical activity in extreme cold weather combine high end Merino Wool, and high end synthetic material, which as I have been saying is the superior combo over just Merino on its own under these conditions. I get by on nothing but a synthetic layer, underneath a merino layer, underneath a shell jacket, all winter long... and I stay dry and warm :)

For the merino and lycra and stuff, I just use a very mild non-bio. I now only own 1 HH-esque poly-propelene top which I have to hot wash with nasty detergent to get clean, and even then it's a bit smelly.

Base-layers for more than 2 days... never been touring, or camping?! 5 days in my merino top on a climbing trip was the longest between washes - despite lots of physical exertion and sleeping in it, it was still passable* at the end. Long lasting thermals are a real bonus, because you only have to buy a couple to see you good.

(*at least relative to the rest of me!)

Thats the problem right there, you are using crap washing liquid to wash a very dirty base-layer, you need to use decent stuff, which will also improve the life of your base-layer, and negate the need for you to do stupid things like put it on a hot-wash with nasty detergent, which will damage the wicking properties of it and you might as well throw it in the bin after!

Wash as per the label with this stuff: http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/womens-clothing/cleaning-and-treating/nikwax-base-wash-300ml/COREAWBE141

Merino is nice and warm and comfy (provided your not tin the 10% of the population that's allergic to wool). Only drawback is its not very wear resistant. M&S were doing decent but cheaper Merino base layers last winter, they might have some more in now.

If you smell bad you could go for a base layer that has silver strands embedded in the threads which is supposed to reduce the smellyness. We had guys doing 3-4 days hard walking in them without an obvious clingy odour..

I wash all my synthetic baselayers at 40 degrees with the normal non-bio detergent and they don't smell after but I get them free so I'm not worried about them wearing out. Otherwise wash them on a wool cycle but at 40 with normal detergent as it's the wash cycle that may cause damage to Merino.

Yeah, but the other point is that I don't want to have to worry about using "proper" detergent to wash my stuff, either at home or away. Quite frequently on trips, soap or shampoo in cold water is the mode of washing, and this categorically does not work with smelly-hellys, but does with merino!

BTW you do know that merino comes in multiple weights? I happily use it year round without getting sweaty and I generally run quite hot.

the silver finishes in synthetics wash out pretty quickly

i am allergic to biological washing powders

I don't want to have to mess about with washing base layers differently to my normal clothes. It's all about having something you can just dash into your normal wash.

I don't think i'm quite clear on how the Merino layers work. They hold more moisture - does that mean that they take moisture away from your skin, or that they just get really sweaty?
(Actually, as an after-thought, t-shirts get sweaty when i ride in them but they don't feel weird or irritate my skin...so perhaps it's just the synthetic material against my skin that i don't like).

Do synthetic layers generally work better at getting sweat away from your skin?

I'm now thinking that it might be about buying a decent over layer, and just wearing a t-shirt underneath.

I'm looking for something relatively cheap, but that really works when it comes to extracting sweat away from my body - from the above it sounds like Merino might be the best choice for me...?

Uniqlo do merino jumpers for £20 . My missus got me one for my b'day. If you bought a size down you could use one as a base layer as there quite thin for a jumper but still keeps you warm

If you wanna spend the money use Tech Wash by NikWax to wash your Merino and synth base layers in. If you want to achieve the same without spending money, use soap flakes, good old fashioned soap flakes from the supermarket/ironmonger/haberdashery store. This is 100% the same deal as Tech Wash. I've found both are the best at getting the whiff out of base layers, but I never machine wash Merino, despite people saying you can....

http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/womens-clothing/cleaning-and-treating/nikwax-base-wash-300ml/COREAWBE141 - this is just liquid soap flakes!!

Icebreaker Merino by the way is the good stuff.

Merino pulls moisture from the skin but holds more fluid than synthetics. But even when holding fluid it's warmer than synthetic

basically it fucking rules

go and look at some camping forums for more info