Bored - Seeking Track Wheelset Insight

Maybe, just maybe considering a committed season of track next year...

Possibly retiring well used do-it-all System-Ex/Open Pro/32/3x to indoor roller duties...

It would mean a new build by yours truly.

The hubs (due to budget/proven quality) would be On-One, with only 2 hole count options under consideration:

24/2x/30mm rims @ 465g

or

32/3x/19mm rims @ 390g

I use a pair of wheels built on the 19mm version, and the acceleration (due to the lack of weight) is awesome. And they've been tough enough at 24/28 to be thrashed around the North Downs in dry weather (I wouldn't expect the braking surface to hold up very long in the wet).

I like the idea of them for the track for acceleration-based purposes, but wonder how they'd hold up in a stack. I reckon at 32/3x, they'd be stiff enough for HH's bankings.

Or will the rigidity of a 30mm rim, even at lower spoke count, outweigh the benefits mentioned above, and the profile prove easier to turn over during longer bouts of high speed action, as opposed to 'the jump'?

I'm 63kg/10st/140lb, BTW, but have a high power-to-weight ratio.

Yes, I will be making up my own mind in the end.

Personally I'd doubt if you could tell the 75g difference in weight when accelerating, it's so small as to be almost insignificant.

My understanding of aerodynamics versus weight means that you get far more gain from the former than you do from the latter, so a heavier, more aerodynamic wheel would be faster overall than a lighter less aerodynamic wheel.

You'll probably want something stiff in the rear. ;-)

I don't notice wheel weight on the track, I do notice wheel flex.

Yes, but...

I massively notice the difference in pick up from 15-25mph on the 390g rims, compard to my ~440g Open Pros (although that's also bladed spokes versus plain gauge).

And is 30mm going to give an aero edge...?

Ultimately, I might feel a little insecure on the 19mm variety, so the respectably light semi-aero version is looking more likely.

You're looking at IRD Cadence and aero rims and I claim my £5.

For the record. I'm no trackie, but I'd guess a 30mm rim set-up would be better. Stiffness should be about the same, and its only as 27g difference if you assume 4g spokes.

Yes, but...

I massively notice the difference in pick up from 15-25mph on the 390g rims, compard to my ~440g Open Pros (although that's also bladed spokes versus plain gauge).

In what scenario? There's no uphill on the track (any more).

I quite like the flywheel effect you get from a slightly heavier wheel, it keeps me going when I am dying off on the home straight.

You are more than welcome to take my campy pista aero wheels and my heavy ass pro-lite training wheels out for a run if you want.

Thanks for the offer :)

I notice the effect on the flat as much as uphill. It's probably similar to the difference between riding tubs and clinchers. A tangible feeling of sluggishness - minute (my-newt), but definitely there.

I'd considered the flywheel effect, and that's going to have a bigger impact at HH than a slight edge during kicking or jumping. Bastard Cadence Aeros (yes, Smallfurry), are £15 more expensive each, so you can't claim the £5 as I need it.

It'll be nice to have a fixed-fixed rear too. Cycling to/home from HH on 90-odd inches will be even more impractical during the weekday evenings than early on the weekend.

Thanks for your attention.

i think you'd prefer the lighter rims. more versatile for off-track use too, imo.

just sayin'.

just get mavic elipses.

or if you're on a budget, navigators.

or the same thing is on-one hubs on rigida DP18s. heavy, yes.

if you are going tubular then there's a limited choice of rims!
and tie & solder them if you're going 32/3x

I'd considered the flywheel effect, and that's going to have a bigger impact at HH than a slight edge during kicking or jumping. Bastard Cadence Aeros (yes, Smallfurry), are £15 more expensive each, so you can't claim the £5 as I need it.

I've looked into the IRD rims and even on the road the 30mm's look like a good bet. Like I said you get some (but not all of course) weight back from the reduced spoke count. Plus the aero benefits from reducing spoke count are greater going from 32 to 28 then 28 to 24 etc. so theoretically this is also a resonable factor, when comparing to a 32 spoke wheel.
My road wheels will probably be based on the cadence rims, but thats mostly because of the offset rear drilling and my scepticism towards dished wheels.

Also if you are using high end aero spokes like CX-Ray, then the 30mm version will in fact be £9 cheaper.

those IRDs are light, for deep rims!

with decent clinchers (such as diamante pro lites) you'll be running a very light, very stiff set up. where are you getting the rims from?

those IRDs are light, for deep rims!

with decent clinchers (such as diamante pro lites) you'll be running a very light, very stiff set up. where are you getting the rims from?

Used to be stocked here:
http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/index.htm
Cant see them on the parts list anymore though :(

Used to be stocked here:
http://www.wheelsmith.co.uk/index.htm
Cant see them on the parts list anymore though :(

He also does those Gigantex crabon tub rims which are the OEM ones PX rebadged for their track wheelset. +£50 on PX track hubs and some spokes... hmmmmm...

I'll get the rims from Derek again if he's got them. Nice bloke to do business with.

I'll get the rims from Derek again if he's got them. Nice bloke to do business with.

Is that the guy from the Wheelsmith site?
I'm very likely to order from there at some point, nice informative web site.

Yes - he's on here. Can't remember his username, but he pops up in some relevant threads.

I have decided you should go 24h with the aero rims and bladed spokes.

you then have a slightly similar, lighter (?) version of mavic ellipses, albeit without the adjustable bearings, which people seem to go very well on at HH. You can build them plenty stiff enough, especially for your weight. (although your 2,600 watts might strip the sprocket off)

I hadn't seen your post, but you'll be pleased to hear the hub/rim combo mentioned above are (is?) on order.

Haven't ordered spokes yet.

I had a feeling it would only be a matter of time before the crappy locknuts/cones on my System-Exes broke (probably at the most inopportune moment). They'll be great on the rollers though.

Due to chainstay length/wheelbase issues, I'm fucking off the idea of using a track/get home gearing combo, and will get by with a race/warm-up (and get home) combo. Can't be fucked buying any more rings or sprockets, so it's 44/13-14. I just have to be different, don't I.

Looks like HH is calling me for next year. Fucked if I'm doing HCs two years in a row. That's not healthy.

I actually produced a spike of 3,300 watts on the turbo on Monday night, causing a micro-storm system over EC1. Plants appreciated the precipitation.

how much dem rims?

£55 each from here

And that's including p&p :)

Bladed spokes are soooo expensive. but a necessity, I feel, for this application.

I almost think you should be getting better hubs, but if you are intent on riding this on the road...

I'll ride it on the road to get to and from the track, yes. And the wheels may see some dragstrip TT action. And I'm on a budget.

So bladed spokes are where the money's going. Once you've built with/ridden CX-Rays, it's hard to accept anything less.

These will be way cheaper than a new set of Ellipses, lighter (as you said), and a fuck load more exactingly put together. Then they'll be thrown on the knackered old road/fixed Condor with thread-impaired crankset and brutally filed track ends :)

I am seriously considering making a pair up now!

the mavic's hubs are probably better though, definitely can be set up to be very free running. I was planning to train on a set next year but I'll be getting them trade. retail is whack on those.

Aren't Mavic's hubs some kind of proprietary straight-pull affair?