Danger! HGVs

Kate, the sister of Eilidh who died in Notting Hill earlier this year in an accident involving a HGV, has asked me to help highlight a campaign that she is supporting.

In her words:

Is there any chance you could post these on the forum. I dont know where to put them so people will see them - on the original rider down link or Eilidhs memorial ride, or somewhere else....?

I want to ask people to print off the jpeg onto sticker paper and stick these anywhere they see one of Boris's idyllic posters promoting cycling. (Or their friends and family as forum people will not be taking the tube where all the posters are situated).

The photo is an example.

What do you think?

Im not too hot at that forum stuff so would really appreciate your help in posting.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Many thanks

Kate (Eilidhs sis)

2 Attachments

good plan.

i like this

Beware criminal damage charges. Unless the signs are attatched with bluetack, you are technically vandalising LT property.

Also: Is this really the right message? This could put people off who are considering cycling.

Sorry to be negative and whatnot. These are serious questions.

its a strong message.

I'd rather there was advice to get cycle training rather than this offputting message.

Also: Is this really the right message? This could put people off who are considering cycling.

Fair point. The stickers should include a link to a website for more information, etc., instead of just apparent guerilla vandalism.

I'd rather there was advice to get cycle training rather than this offputting message.

+1

For me it's a no brainer saying watch out for a fucking massive truck. It's the left turning HGV message we need to push, so it would be better to allude to that and give a website for advice. And there might even be some people that have no idea what a 'HGV' even is.

For me it's a no brainer saying watch out for a fucking massive truck. It's the left turning HGV message we need to push, so it would be better to allude to that and give a website for advice. And there might even be some people that have no idea what a 'HGV' even is.

+1

I am really sorry to say that personally seeing that stuck onto a pro cycling poster would scare me.

:(

How about 'learn what the primary position is, and use it' ?

it's amazing those posters all have no helmets on

I'd rather there was advice to get cycle training rather than this offputting message.

Defintely, this only put people off cycling even more, it just said "HGV", not even why.
*
"don't undertake HGV"* would be a better message than "danger HGV!" as if even riding behind them is very risky.

it's amazing those posters all have no helmets on

I'm guessing it'll encourage more people to ride, and don't need every single equipment just to be safe, after all it's safety in number, not equipment, like the cyclists in the Netherlands.

it's amazing those posters all have no helmets on

Good. It's about time the message was "to stay safe, learn to ride properly" rather than "wear hi vis and a helmet and you'll automatically be safe"

Today I had a pop at this girl who tore up behind a bin lorry who was manoevring to reverse up a side street. She just sailed though a tiny gap as the driver was changing gear from forward to reverse. It was obvious what they were doing but she was in some kind of nodder hurry I imagine.

I spoke to her and just said 'don't take risks with massive bin lorries, that helmet will do fuck all for you'. Made me pretty angry at her being so ignorant, even of my comment.

Good. It's about time the message was "to stay safe, learn to ride properly" rather than "wear hi vis and a helmet and you'll automatically be safe"

That would be fine if that messaging was there but it is'nt

For me it's a no brainer saying watch out for a fucking massive truck. It's the left turning HGV message we need to push, so it would be better to allude to that and give a website for advice. And there might even be some people that have no idea what a 'HGV' even is.

im glad you are discussing this. Re the above - EILIDH WAS NOT ON THE LEFT SIDE, THE LORRY WAS NOT TURNING LEFT, SHE WAS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LANE, ON HIS RIGHT SIDE, IN FRONT OF HIM - she was doing everything as suggested in training, guidance, whatever. You cant trust these vehicles.
My point is Boris is saying get on your bike, its such fun and you are so carefree, but it is HE and those posters that should be showing the website that goes direct to the dangers to watch out for. The problem is THEY ALL ASSUME T

Very good point. Lots of people get hit when they are riding perfectly well.

How about 'watch your back', there are people who don't care about you on the roads'

I often say 'avoid main roads' (where heavy vehicles are more likely to be) to new cyclists. Or 'grow eyes in the back of your head'.

oops got cut off.....THEY ALL ASSUME - that the people who die are people like this girl described above. Its not fair. Eilidh wasnt. Its like sending new cyclists to war with no armour. No armour of knowldege, statistics, and know-how. Yes it is supposed to be controversial, and it is supposed to make people think twice. But at least they might make a considered choice to cycle instead of an uninformed one.
I just got back from Copenahgen. Noone wore helmets (well a few did but much the minority) noone wore hi vis, they all had sit up bikes, they all wore their work clothes, girls in pretty dresses, guys in suits, it was perfect. Obvioulsy we are a long way from this. I know the stats for cycle helmets, they save 60% of 60% of people wearing them who have crashes or sthg like that, but lets face it, a helmet would have done nothing for Eilidh. The fker just mowed her down. You need to know this stuff, eps. new cyclists need to know this, and Boris should be telling them. I want to warn, and save, and protect the cyclist that are doing it all right. Like Eilidh, and Anthony in Reading, and so many others.
Thanks for the opportunity to vent.

Other idea is every one wears cameras, and we log and show and tell these drivers, and maybe prosecute? before they actually kill someone. Then we all see the riders point of view, instead of all assuming the drivers point of view. This would be very powerful.

Also: Is this really the right message? This could put people off who are considering cycling.

Sorry to be negative and whatnot. These are serious questions.

I have to agree that these were also my first thoughts.

I've been dreaming of the day I can afford a camera to record my commute... I would do it in a second... and my day dream continues that from the money made privately prosecuting dangerous drivers more camera's would be bought... don't know about reality, but I'd happily tape my journey and send it in to stop dangerous driving. (including cyclists)

I've got to say thought that this sticker idea is just scary. It's hard enough to get more people cycling as it is, don't want to give them more reason not to.

I think there needs to be more info than just 'Danger HGVs' on the sticker.

We need to get more people cycling first - and with the correct level of training.

Kate, who have you spoken to about your campaign? There are a few people on the forum who have been campaigning for many years on this topic who may be able to advise you on the most effective course of action.

There are quite a few differences in opinion on how to attack the problem but people will be able to tell you what has been done previously and therefore what to avoid / problems that need to be overcome.

Sorry for your loss.

Ktee why not address your campaign to lorry and HGV drivers for them to learn how to drive safely around cyclists and understand how cyclists behave.

Cyclists need to learn how to behave and how to be visible in the traffic but telling them that a lorry might mow them down for no reason does not serve any purpose but will scare people off. It is a bit like putting a sticker with a knife or gun or mugging on a TfL walk to work campaign.

I am sorry, what happened to Eilidh was really horrific.

I have to agree that these were also my first thoughts.

+1

Also, what about campaigns directed at HGV drivers - given the comments already made about fault...