Acupuncture

hello,
after smashing up my leg and ankle last year, i now have minimal movement in my ankle, due to all the soft tissue damage (basically bust the capsule, tore every tendon, ligament and lost a whole load of muscle).

I am working hard at physio, but am also thinking of trying acupuncture. Has anyone had good results or know of a good person to go to? (either london or dorset).

thanks!

Workmate here is going at the moment and says it's helping his shoulder a lot.

that's good to hear... just concerned about finding the right person to go to, as i'm sure there are plenty of jokers out there...

Word of warning.

Acupuncture is generally believed to be a placebo.

http://www.dcscience.net/?p=45

There are many double blinds test showing no or little effect.

This is not to say that a placebo can not be useful, as at the end of the day if you feel like the pain is less, then it effectively is, it's just that you need to know that it's your mind playing tricks on you, and it's just that "thing" this may be something that gets your mind to play those tricks, rather than the "thing" it's self. Whether this be a glucose pill or acupuncture.

it only work if you believe it to work.

Word of warning.

Acupuncture is generally believed to be a placebo.

http://www.dcscience.net/?p=45

I'm pretty sure that for some people it is a placebo. But having personally experienced excruciating back pain from a ski accident, and having tried many things before being driven to frustration and finally resorting to trying the placebo and being extremely cynical about it, that acupuncture did make a significant difference. A placebo it wasn't in my case.

How do you know it was not a placebo?

If it "works" by creating a placebo effect then as good as there being an actual mechanism in there at work but it's still a placebo. So it's difficult to tell in a one man trail. What works as a placebo may work for one man but not another.

It's a difficult one to test, but currently the bulk of evidence is against it.

It could well be true is some special cases, your specific back problem might be one, but I think people have to be very careful with unproven medicine. There are a lot of charlatan out there, who manipulate people in the world of unproven medicine.

A bit of googling seems to suggest this is the paper to read for which cases it seems to work for (WHO)

http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js4926e/#Js4926e.5

My mum is a pain control specialist and uses acupuncture. It is not (in my opinion) a placebo but as with most things works for some and not others. I've got a back injury and it has really helped....no harm in giving it a try I'd say but must be done in conjunction with the physio as it won't help bring the strength back which is the crucial bit

Jemjah, I have been seing an acupuncturist for the past 18 months and it has done wonders for me. In the middle of my usual treatment I broke my elbow and hurt my wrist and was treated as well for it with needles and herbal treatment. PM me if you want his details, he is excellent. But obviously everybody knows that I am hysterical and into mystical bullshit :)

Chinese medicine is a 2000 year old but hey everybody knows that chinese people are inferior and backward so could not possibly add anything to our superior knowledge.

Chinese medicine is a 2000 year old but hey everybody knows that chinese people are inferior and backward so could not possibly add anything to our superior knowledge.

Where the fuck does this come from? I'm pointing out the current evidence and science and get accused of racism?

What the fuck is wrong with you?

What i find strange is when people tell you that they feel better with acupuncture you all go to Google and try to research websites that give you data to prove that we are wrong and fully believe the data that you read because that's what you want to see.. Try to be a bit more open.

Acupuncture relieves cancer chemotherapy fatigue

"Nobody is sure how acupuncture actually works, but researchers have previously suggested that it might reduce fatigue by stimulating the body to release endorphins - morphine-like chemicals that block pain signals and induce a feeling of well-being."

the key word being endorphins.

How do you know it was not a placebo?

If it "works" by creating a placebo effect then as good as there being an actual mechanism in there at work but it's still a placebo. So it's difficult to tell in a one man trail. What works as a placebo may work for one man but not another.

It's a difficult one to test, but currently the bulk of evidence is against it.

It could well be true is some special cases, your specific back problem might be one, but I think people have to be very careful with unproven medicine. There are a lot of charlatan out there, who manipulate people in the world of unproven medicine.

A bit of googling seems to suggest this is the paper to read for which cases it seems to work for (WHO)

http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js4926e/#Js4926e.5

I really don't care to argue with you. I doubt you'd find a more cynical, logical and ruthless person on here when it comes to applying science to life. But having experienced back pain, and having exhausted the answers science proposed... acupuncture worked.

You're going to get a fierce response to what you are posting though.

By responding to my response with the "it's a placebo" line, you must clearly hold the view that the pain that I experienced was not real. In fact you're implying that it was invented, that it was in the mind, that I had no physical manifestation of the injury and that there was no physical pain... in effect, I feel that your line is that I am effectively lying about the pain I experienced. Could that be more offensive to me?

Cunt.

My Mum is an alternative therapist (Indian head massage, reflexology, Shiatsu) and Shiatsu is fcking great. Works on the same pressure points as acupuncture, but uses pressure, long stretch holds and deep massage to do the same thing. It's worked wonders for me on countless occasions, sprained ankles, back problems, sleeping issues, headaches.

I will always go with an eastern form of treatment before a western one, purely because western medicine is often unnecessarily invasive.

But obviously everybody knows that I am hysterical and into mystical bullshit :)

Aha :)

If the pain is cured one way or another, whether it be a form of hysteria or a real cure, surely it doesn't matter if it 'works' scientifically, because it 'works' in 'reality'?

I've had treatment for my back from a physio where the physio has stuck needles deep into the muscles to release them. A simple physical effect which works in a similar manner to massage. The physio made it clear it wasn't acupuncture so hopefully folk aren't getting the two confused here.

Acupuncture is wholey different, involving energy lines and other mysterious activities.

Chinese medicine is a 2000 year old but hey everybody knows that chinese people are inferior and backward so could not possibly add anything to our superior knowledge.

Idiotic comment.

I really don't care to argue with you. I doubt you'd find a more cynical, logical and ruthless person on here when it comes to applying science to life. But having experienced back pain, and having exhausted the answers science proposed... acupuncture worked.

You're going to get a fierce response to what you are posting though.

By responding to my response with the "it's a placebo" line, you must clearly hold the view that the pain that I experienced was not real. In fact you're implying that it was invented, that it was in the mind, that I had no physical manifestation of the injury and that there was no physical pain... in effect, I feel that your line is that I am effectively lying about the pain I experienced. Could that be more offensive to me?

Wow !

A very out of character response !

I thought Tommy's post was not unreasonable, he did not say your back pain was invented, he even made room by saying 'It could well be true is some special cases, your specific back problem might be one".

it only work if you believe it to work.

After seeking out & undergoing much therapies I finally had Acupuncture done on an old sports injury on my right shoulder (rhomboid area), 8 sessions for £150, over a period over 2months, and it sorted it (and that was during the winter!)
=]
Of course it depends on what you have Acu done for, but I found it to be great for long term muscle problems/sports injuries. its also important to remember you let the affected area totally relax **after **the sessions have ended.
I dont think you have to believe in it to work, but you have to allow it to work.

WoW from me too!

i never expected such a heated debate...

For the OP - I'm not aware that there is any available accreditation or regulation for practitioners, so you take your chance with word of mouth.

British Acupuncture Council

ive got a herniated disc and a slightly misaligned L5-L4. my osteopath stuck in a couple of pins in there every time i went to see him. this despite me telling him it doesnt do anything. he did say that it doesnt work for everyone but there are others that feel genuinely relieved of pain. dunno why i kept on allowing him to do it though. i think i just wanted to get my moneys worth.

@VV. dont think your point applies here. we know a lot more about the human body now compared to 2000yrs ago. and let's not forget the chinese are a very superstitious bunch.

a couple of times my folks took me to a quack-healer. people still believe it to this day. their practice survived generations. it's all fckd up tho. centuries old practice based on centuries old bullshit.

I quite enjoyed acupuncture. It was a wierd but strangely relaxing feeling after a session.

However it did not quite help my symptoms. Worth trying IMO.