How to make the roads safer?

What should be done? More cycle paths? Cyclists allowed to RLJ? What are peoples thoughts? I feel the size of this forum could weld a lot of power if we put our heads together.

Kill all the cunts

I could tell you but it's a secret…

Teach a good 80% of cyclists in london how to not ride like a tool might help.

Cyclists allowed to RLJ?

I think you'd need to change something to make it safer.

Teach a good 80% of cyclists in london how to not ride like a tool might help.

this is the biggest thing. I truly think that people need to go riding with a "coach" for a couple of weeks before going out on their own in metropolitan areas. I do this with all of my friends that i get on bikes. I'm watching how the ride, and pointing out dangerous things they are doing. It really allows them to quckly learn how to ride in traffic competently. A lot of what it takes to ride in traffic seems completely counterintuitive at first.

the other thing is that there need to be legitimate cycling routes where cars are very limited, cyclists have right of way, go signals, etc. I'm talking whole streets need to be blocked off. Not just bike lanes. Would be good for the community, anyway.

this gets a little sappy, but still it's kind of a good representation of a dream i often have.
http://www.streetfilms.org/archives/transportation-ethics/

Riding at 2:00am I feel pretty safe. Perhaps clear the roads of all non-commercial traffic during the hours of 8:00am-7:00pm.

Teach a good 80% of cyclists in london how to not ride like a tool might help.

I was going to start a new thread but this seems as good a place to post my recent observations.

Yesterday evening I had the misfortune of being stuck in some very heavy and slow moving traffic on Clapham Road and I have to say I was truly appalled at the way some cyclists were riding, literally putting their lives at risk in their rush to get home. I actually saw 2 VERY near misses right under my nose and in the space of 5 minutes, both involving a right turning vehicle and a cyclist filtering recklessly fast up the inside of stationary traffic.

I was driving a Transit van and heading west towards the Common, roughly at about 7pm. On both occasions I was, and had been for some time, stationary and with a turning immediately in front of me to my left. Also I had stopped in a manner that left the junctions clear so that traffic coming from the opposite direction could turn into the junctions and traffic wishing to turn right from the junctions could do so too.

Both near misses occurred as a result of a vehicle turning right into the path of a fast moving bike filtering up the inside of me. The first bike, I estimate, was doing in the order of 20mph and only stopped with inches to spare after a very scary back wheel in the air type heavy braking session. How he didn’t go over the bars I’ll never know. On both occasions the drivers of the right turning vehicle spotted the bikes and stopped also.

What appalled me so was the dangerous way some cyclists were dealing with major hazards. OK so a junction on it’s own is not a major hazard but surely becomes one when there is a risk of traffic turning into these junctions across their path, when undertaking at speed and when 50% of their view of the junction is obscured by a large panel van. Yet these riders were not slowing down at all.

Reading about the daily accidents involving cyclists saddens me. I know careless drivers cause many but, given what I witnessed last night, I suspect a fair few are in fact the cyclists’ fault. So, come on guys and girls, put your thinking heads on before setting out on your journeys. Always assume someone will turn into your path and prepare to stop accordingly.

I know this will not apply to the majority of you but, if posting this saves just one of us from injury or worse, then I am happy.

Footnote. At no time did I indicate to the right turning vehicles that they should go. The traffic was so heavy I was mostly watching the world go by. I also did not have enough time to give a warning on the horn, which I would naturally have done so given the opportunity.

Ride Safe!

I was considering this the other day, what with the recent spate of deaths...one idea in my mind was that cycle shops give for instance a booklet on staying safe on the roads to people buying a bike for the first time or who are coming back into the game after years and years out, or just all bike buyers...it might get ignored, but it might get read...

on the subject of cycle paths, that could help, but they have to be done properly, not some half assed effort with a crap design...the classic bad example for me is the Bloomsbury one - that thing creates more accidents than it helps to prevent imo...I never use it, as is my right, but then you get taxi drivers and other road users getting angry at you for taking up space when there is a cycle lane...

Also, heavier sentences for those found guilty of dangerous driving, and a greater willingness on the part of police to follow up cycling related incidents on the road

...just a few thoughts anyway

...just read wvm's post, and yeah, good points - some cyclists don't help themselves, me too on occasion no doubt

Removed the green fucking path to the ASL, and hopefully people don't follow it to their death;

Removed the green fucking path to the ASL, and hopefully people don't follow it to their death;

+1

When i was in india, I arrived in Deli late at night and all the roads were chocked up with HGV.
I asked our guide why there were so many of these vehicles on the road.
He said that HGVs were prohibited from driving in the city during the day time.
Maybe London could do with a law like this. As most of the HGV accidents happen at commuter hours.

Removed the green fucking path to the ASL, and hopefully people don't follow it to their death;

this is exactly why cars and bikes simply can't be on the same street without some level of systematic danger. i mean it just isn't possible without a major change in traffic patterns. people think bikes lanes are the answer, but they aren't.

I was going to start a new thread but this seems as good a place to post my recent observations.

Yesterday evening I had the misfortune of being stuck in some very heavy and slow moving traffic on Clapham Road and I have to say I was truly appalled at the way some cyclists were riding, literally putting their lives at risk in their rush to get home. I actually saw 2 VERY near misses right under my nose and in the space of 5 minutes, both involving a right turning vehicle and a cyclist filtering recklessly fast up the inside of stationary traffic.

I was driving a Transit van and heading west towards the Common, roughly at about 7pm. On both occasions I was, and had been for some time, stationary and with a turning immediately in front of me to my left. Also I had stopped in a manner that left the junctions clear so that traffic coming from the opposite direction could turn into the junctions and traffic wishing to turn right from the junctions could do so too.

Both near misses occurred as a result of a vehicle turning right into the path of a fast moving bike filtering up the inside of me. The first bike, I estimate, was doing in the order of 20mph and only stopped with inches to spare after a very scary back wheel in the air type heavy braking session. How he didn’t go over the bars I’ll never know. On both occasions the drivers of the right turning vehicle spotted the bikes and stopped also.

What appalled me so was the dangerous way some cyclists were dealing with major hazards. OK so a junction on it’s own is not a major hazard but surely becomes one when there is a risk of traffic turning into these junctions across their path, when undertaking at speed and when 50% of their view of the junction is obscured by a large panel van. Yet these riders were not slowing down at all.

Reading about the daily accidents involving cyclists saddens me. I know careless drivers cause many but, given what I witnessed last night, I suspect a fair few are in fact the cyclists’ fault. So, come on guys and girls, put your thinking heads on before setting out on your journeys. Always assume someone will turn into your path and prepare to stop accordingly.

I know this will not apply to the majority of you but, if posting this saves just one of us from injury or worse, then I am happy.

Footnote. At no time did I indicate to the right turning vehicles that they should go. The traffic was so heavy I was mostly watching the world go by. I also did not have enough time to give a warning on the horn, which I would naturally have done so given the opportunity.

Ride Safe!

Exactly. people are very quick to damn the driving of every car/van/motorbike in london, but to be honest i think alot of cyclists make the roads more dangerous themselves. Im glad my commute is a pretty quiet one, down relatively quiet roads with few other commuters on them (yay for living north west!) I actually dread the days i head down south to visit friends straight after work during rush hour, not because of cars and heavy traffic, i can deal with that, but actually due to other cyclist commuters doing fucking stupid things that put ME in danger not to mention themselves! One that really sticks in my mind was the very first time i ever cycled down south lambeth road during the commuter rush. Not a particularly trecherous road, but due to the sheer quantity of bikes riding completely unaware of what was going on around them it felt like havoc.

Training is the answer, next question?

......the sheer quantity of bikes riding completely unaware of what was going on around them it felt like havoc.

I did notice that too last night - huge numbers of bikes all riding to different agendas. Some traffic lights were like starting a F1, Touring Car, 2CV, etc. race on the same grid at the same time. Mayhem!

lobbying for cycling awareness ads to be broadcast on tv? and by that i don't mean tfl's ridiculous campain a few years back which essentially said 'stop at red lights in the most dangerous part of the road' but real tips for road awareness.

Teach a good 80% of cyclists in london how to not ride like a tool might help.

indeed and the rest of the country too.

seems ironic that this is a cycling community and we are slagging off the cyclists, but yesterday nearly started a thread myself about the amount of fair weather cyclists around at mo.
it makes us look bad when there are these people veering all over the place, shit control skills and piss poor bike handling.

so, more level 3 training-Londoners are lucky lots of boroughs offer it.
(and even level 2 for many 'returning cyclists') point it to people theres all sorts of shizzle promotions like 'women on wheels' some of it free.
also massive public awareness campaign for us, i.e pointing out wtf ASLS are supposed to do, its fair to say that a huge proportion of drivers passed their tests before they were even introduced. The ASL by the way is now accepted practice in London, youre lucky,many of the rest of the countrys local authorities still have engineers, highways staff who need persauding that cyclists are even to be acknowledged.
Rest assured there are people hassling staff who make decisions on infrastructure, routes, training, quality provision, home zones.

fill in the potholes

Whilst I am all in favour of Ed's suggestion, removing the cycle lane won't stop the majority of people riding in the gutter like they always have done. +1 for training, +1 for cycle guides with new bikes and +1 for better road surfacing, that'd be a better use of money than introducing more little green lanes of death.

I think there is some milage in BJ's "Cycle Superhighway" concept, but only if it is well implemented. Cycle lanes as wide as a decent car lane and with good survillence and charges brought against motorists who use them. I don't think having them set back or separated from the road will do any good, other than making new or unconfident cyclists feel more at risk on roads without them.
Admittedly, I don't know much about the scheme and haven't read up on it, but from the little I've heard it could be a go-er.

Also, out of interest, whilst I know many people here RLJ for safety, do we think that the majority of "fairweather cyclists" who RLJ do it for the same reason, or is it a lack of attention to the road, ignorance of the application of lights to bikes or just not wanting to stop? Hell knows that why I RLJ most of the time.

Not removing the cycle lane completely of course, but removing this bit mean vehicle will be closer to the gap, therefore cyclists will end up waiting behind a vehicle or overtake it to get to the front.

the best option out there is to simply disallowed HGV in central London, but that'd mean evening going to be noisy (believe me, it's slighty noisy living next to Gary Inn's Road in the evening as it is), and may annoyed locals who live here.

you only have to look at the poor standard of driving in this country to see that the standard of cycling is going to be just as bad, i see no reason why cyclists will behave any different. i.e selfish, inconsiderate, in a hurry, oblivious of what's going on around them and who think it's o.k for them to break the law but not others.

enforcing the law against using mobile phones while driving would help.

Promote cycle training wherever you can, guys, spread the word.

you only have to look at the poor standard of driving in this country to see that the standard of cycling is going to be just as bad, i see no reason why cyclists will behave any different. i.e selfish, inconsiderate, in a hurry, oblivious of what's going on around them and who think it's o.k for them to break the law but not others.

+1 Every group is bad. I'd start with a cull of everyone who darts out into the road at a pedestrian crossing. You can see dozens of these people, and not a single one will have pressed the button. Why? They're too important for that of course.

Any real change has to be pretty fundamental and at a higher level than the individual or a single bit of road I reckon. Farting around with a cycle lane here, a bit of paint there, a TFL poster campaign there doesn't do anything. It's like "traffic calming", it's just tinkering lipservice and annoys people. Way higher up, you could start with seemingly unconnected stuff, like making kids go to their local school so they're not driven half way across London twice a day, give planning authorities the power and will to stop there being a Tesco Metro or Lidl Urban on every corner, start to remove unnecessary traffic. Or have government (national and local) that'll actually invest in public transport rather than painting it a different colour, just more lipservice. Random example, for the bits of London where the lack of other public transport means you get a continuous stream of buses fighting for road space along one corridor, put a tram in - more efficient, more predictable, people are more likely to use it and leave their car and those roads will be more pleasant. (Out from the centre east towards Hackney seems an obvious route for a tram, for example)

Umm, I guess all I really mean is the problem is too much traffic trying to use too little road. Triple the congestion charge, or something.

Riding at 2:00am I feel pretty safe. Perhaps clear the roads of all non-commercial traffic during the hours of 8:00am-7:00pm.

Given that commercial vehicles have been involved in most of the accidents of late, I don't think this would work...